Youth Coalition on Internet Governance

15 September 2010 - A Dynamic Coalition on Access in Vilnius, Lithuania

Also available in:
Full Session Transcript

Note: The following is the output of the real-time captioning taken during Fifth Meeting of the IGF, in Vilnius. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the session, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.

>> Hello everyone.  I think you should set yourself down.  Look at the agenda for our meeting on Internet governance.  But basically this is about the first as it is    it is our first officially.  So we definitely use our    they can mitigate for IGF and if we can incorporate consultation officially start it as youth coalition.  And then we go to more process.  We need to talk about the    quite overview topic but we need to fix that and then we can talk about the outpatient promotion activities and everything.  Okay.  So we can start with our members.  

>> Okay.  (Off microphone).  (Microphone difficulties) 

>> I am Tim Davies.  

>> Hi I am Grace Mutungu.  I am from Kenya and I am glad this is a youth coalition meeting.  So I don't have a lot of experience. 

>> Hi I am Laura. 

>> Hi Malte Spitz.  I am 26 years old and I am from Germany and I am on the executive board of the German green party.  

>> Hi everyone.  It is Bianca Ho from NetMission.  And what we do is address digital divide in Hong Kong and we also organise the youth in Hong Kong. 

>> I am in the foreign affairs ministry in Finland. 

>> I am from Finnish Information Society Development.  I have nine young people at home.  

>> Thank you.  

>> Hi.  I am Raquel Gatto from Brazil and I am also one of the oldest.  I am 28 but it is nice to meet you.  And I would like to start with an apology because I need to leave.  A lot of you know with the remote moderation and I have to be in the main session.  Rafik is going to take the lead.  We can work on the elections process to bring in the idea based on our charter.  If anybody remembers, if you remember I have the link here.  We could also put online.  So you can remember.  And so sorry about it.  Sorry about the short time.  It is IGF and I hope to keep up with you on the mailing list.  Okay.  Nice to meet you.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Okay.  Thanks Raquel for introducing the issues of the election process.  So as I said before it is an overdue task and we hope that we can finish before December of this year and then we can have a steering committee with representation for    from all stakeholders and there they can plan programme for next year.  
So I am    okay just    okay.  So I think as    so Raquel, do I have to    yeah.  That's okay.  Raquel drafted this proposal.  Okay.  So the idea is we define our election process from our charter.  So as you see in the Article 1 that youth coalition on Internet Governance should have in the steering committee formed by three elected members, Chair and vice Chair and maybe a secretary.  Treasurer I am not sure because we don't have any funds yet.  But we need the Chair and the vice Chair for our    for the steering committee.  So as you can find the link in the group mailing list.  Okay.  One of the issues with the Dynamic Coalition for youth is how to define youth and also that we want steering committee formed by young people.  I understand that we have some issues.  It can happen with people from    from the private sector and Governments.  So it is not really easy to find young people.  So we are really lucky to have a guy like Yuso who is involved with it but it is more complicated to find another Government representative that    who are willing to participate.  We have also a lady, we have a representative from Canada Government, Tomah Raissen who joins us.  We still need more representatives from the private sector and maybe our coalition member can help us with the out    if we can get in touch with some people from the private sector.  
So back to the election process.  So we define that only individual members and their 30 years limited number of representatives of youth organisation can be elected.  Okay.  So it is quite restrictive for    especially for representatives from Government and private sector.  So we can talk about that point.  Elected members will have only one year term mandate with a limitation of two terms.  So I think the idea is to    we have more new people every time.  And to avoid capture of the youth coalition by a group of people.  
So maybe    so to go more quickly we can ask this    we can talk about that point or we can wait at the end of the presentation.  So...any question in that point?  Joseph?  

>> I would like to ask something. 


>> Joseph:  Maybe somebody could give us a quick brief on what the dynamic youth coalition is all about and they might want to know what we exactly do and what we have done in the past and why we are planning to have elections anyway. 

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  I can try to represent the youth coalition but what we need to do is we need to talk about the coalition.  So just maybe let me find the link.  Okay.  So as I said before that the youth    okay.  The youth coalition is    was the follow up of the youth workshop organised in 2009 in Sharm El Sheikh.  The youth workshop.  And one of the outcomes of that workshop that we should set up a youth coalition.  So the idea is not really new.  It was one of the old ideas discussed in the Oasis of Youth in Switzerland and Tunis.  But hopefully we could make it for this time.  Yeah, it is an overdue project but at least we can    we could make it this time.  And as any Dynamic Coalition it is open to all stakeholder groups and we also want to have a more geographical and gender diversity.  
It is quite hard to go in all the charters now to maybe describe all the    what are the objectives of our coalition but I advise that people can check, can check the link.  So just you need to go to this mailing list and you will find a page about the charter and also the official    the first official statement for youth.  
So Grace?  It does have a question or not?  

>> GRACE MUTUNGU:  I don't think I actually got on the mailing list.  So I am going to check from there.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Okay.  It is that link.  Okay.  Maybe we can go back to the election process.  So any feedback, any opinion, any point of view about that?  Okay.  Maybe we need the lawyer expertise like Markku. 

>> MARKKU RASANEN:  What do you mean?  Like my opinion about how we should conduct it or    

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Yes, yes.  Yes.  

>> MARKKU RASANEN:  I don't know.  I guess for this standard open ballot or something like this.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  It is not a problem of how to implement the process.  But more like it is how to define the    who is eligible to be nominated and, et cetera.  

>> MARKKU RASANEN:  Yeah, I mean then we have to define what's youth and so on.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Oh, okay.  

>> Sorry, I was missing all it.  Could somebody explain what kind of validation we are working on?  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Okay.  It is the youth coalition on Internet Governance.  So it is    how to define that within IGF.  So the Dynamic Coalition idea started I think in IGF Athens.  So we have different issues or topics, like there is Internet rights and Dynamic Coalition, freedom of expression.  We have all these stakeholders participating in the same coalition to discuss and debate about the same topic and we have this one about youth issues for IGF.  More for Internet governance aspect.  

>> Okay.  I am from Germany and we are trying to follow something like International Pirates Foundation.  Maybe I could report from our experiences there because it is going to the same direction like bundling youth power.  We currently have problems with formal rules and like with members.  Secondly it was kind of hard to arrange meetings or set dates or we just decide something.  So this is my experience with creating like organisations to bundle power.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Thank you Joran for your feedback.  We are not I would say an official organisation.  Just more informal structure where people can join and to talk about the same issues and I understand that the problem if we make it more formal it can stall the process and also not to    so we    I would say    and this will make it more complicated and that we    okay.  

>> Sorry.  Like for my own clarification and I mean I am new to the space.  So I am going to ask these questions.  Basically what do you do?  What do you hope to achieve and how are you going to do it?  I think    I mean I am interested in this but I don't know how I can contribute because I have never been in this space, for instance.  So are there particular outputs or outcomes that will come from this?  Are there proposals that are going to come in to civil society?  What are we potentially working with if we come on board?  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Okay.  Many questions.  What we    yeah.  So as I said we start in (inaudible) and we sent some statements to the open consultations that we tried to have all the stakeholders and young people to achieve the    to make that statement.  And also we organise this workshop for IGF.  It is not really I say is    we didn't do so much but we are just at the beginning.  And we also try to bring more people.  First we need to outreach, to bring more people, more organisation to interest, especially not the insider of the Internet Governance community but we people like Leon who are new to that space and to bring more fresh ideas.  Okay.  Nadia?  

>> Nadia:  Hi.  Everyone.  So I am also new to this space and I would like to give our feedback on the charter Article 1.  If that's now the point for it otherwise I will postpone it.  So just tell me if you are okay with it.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  I didn't understand your point.  

>> Nadia:  As far as I understood there was the question because this    in this red color, so the question is what positions you would like to have in the steering committee.  Is this still valid or did you decide already upon this?  If not I would like to make a suggestion.  If this is done we can go on.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  No.  It is not done and honestly I didn't make the presentation.  It is from Raquel but she cannot make it for this time.  All points can be discussed.  

>> Nadia:  Maybe I can make a proposal.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Yes.  Sure.  

>> Nadia:  Okay.  So the idea is when you have a steering committee that you say okay, you have    as far as I see it the idea is to have a Chair and Vice Chair and decide whether you like to have a secretary or a treasury, if I see it from here.  My idea on it is to make sense to have a Chair and a Vice Chair and a secretary.  And the point about having a treasury is to have money or not.  If you don't intend to set it up as a real youth organisation with a registry, I would stick to someone who would take the bureaucratic stuff and have a Chair and a Vice Chair and a secretary.  That would be my humble opinion about this.  Thank you.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  I agree we don't need a treasury and we don't have any finances and we are not going to do funding.  

>> BIANCA HO:  Internet Governance is pretty broad.  Is there a specific focus that we are going to have and in general all Internet Governance?  Maybe it is bits and pieces.  How do you bring that forward?  

>> I propose a common ground youth.  I don't think people should worry too much about limiting the areas at the moment.  Once we start doing things it starts to mold itself in place.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Thank you.  I agree with you.  So we don't need to limit for now.  So we can    some members can bring some issues in the future.  So that's why in our charter we define some objectives.  We are not limited to some topics but we have some ideas what we can do for the    for youth.  
Okay.  Just so like in the Article 4    okay.  Article 4 of our charter that we defined some principles and values.  So we can go from that.  

>> First I would like to point the question is to define the word what is youth from which age and which the audience is interested and in which of their problems are.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Thank you.  First the issue of the youth or age range, it is really I would say all discussion.  I think maybe Tim can answer to that.  Because we had since the beginning of our coalition a discussion about that.  Maybe he can summarize. 

>> TIM DAVIES:  Yeah, the proposal I put forward broadly taking children to be the UN definition, under 18, young people between 18 towards 25.  Although that's a slightly fuzzy boundary and young adults being a fuzzy boundary 22, upwards.  At that age it is more defined on the volume.  If we are clear we need to be making sure a coalition that presents the views and voice of children, young people and young adults, we are not missing any of those.  We will be a stronger coalition.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Thank you.  Okay.  

>> So for me it looks like you would try to    like to try to follow necessary    

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Sorry?  

>> We want to follow an association.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Me, no.  

>> But why do we need the principles and charters then?  

>> I think it is more like a working group or a network of interested parties.  So you can think of it as an association but it is not based anywhere. 

>> Then why do we need this formal stuff then?  

>> I guess so that somebody can lead that process for now and then also I mean this sort of thing provides for leadership    well, not education.  It is experience.  So once you have done time with the coalition you can nominate yourself or be nominated by somebody else and say next year.  I tend to not like power structures but I think this might be useful for like newcomers to the process.  So usually a network would have somebody just to run the place.  Maybe the terminology is not the right terminology for it.  It is more like a coordinator or something like that I guess.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Thank you.  That's what we are in now.  In the current situation I am just trying to coordinate the youth coalition.  But at least to define and form the structure that can be sustainable and keep the activities of this coalition.  Okay.  But    and understand maybe we need to change the name.  Not Chair and Vice Chair, it sounds too much formal but the ideas we have some leadership to coordinate our task.  We are different parties.  So    okay.  Hey guys.  Yeah.  

>> I think the whole idea of having a dynamic youth coalition is that in the IGF that youth voices are represented and youth issues are always represented not only in youth workshops but also in the whole IGF.  And also other issues.  And also to ensure that the youth gets some training, gets some capacity built in to them so that in the future, even during this IGF and during other IGFs the youths can take up the planning and preparation process of the IGF.  So in my idea is that if this is not a very formal structure.  This is just a coalition, exactly.  It is a coalition of people who are interested in youth affairs.  And so I don't think there is really a great need, this is my opinion, I don't think there is really a great need to have elections and such.  I think it is a great need for leadership and coordination of activities.  We need a point of reference where we can coordinate the things we want to do.  Formal elections is not such a big deal right now and the activities that we do are the more important thing. 

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Yes, I agree.  But it is just to follow what other Dynamic Coalitions are doing.  Many of them have a steering committee to try to represent all the stakeholders and with having a Chair.  We can agree to have some leadership for our coalition.  We need the constant from our membership.  

>> I agree with you, too.  And I would go that way.  I would say that because I belong to another Dynamic Coalition on Internet rights and principles and I can tell you for sure that is a coalition that really works.  I am learning a lot just by attending meetings without even saying much and I think what we have to do first is to do some work.  And so I would say even as we are we are doing well.  I have participated in the mailing list for quite awhile now and I like the leadership there.  I like the way that people contribute and I like when people are asked to give ideas on something they are doing.  So I think we need to do it more seriously.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Just about Internet rights and principles.  I am also there and they have a steering committee and the steering committee elected their Chair.  Okay.  Hey Amr 

>> AMR EL SADR:  I would like to share that I disagree about having a steering committee or a main coordinator because when we leave this, when we leave this place everyone will be at home and behind a screen again and the point of being separated and geographically spread all over the world you don't know what's happening on the other side of the screen.  So I would like to see some so called steering committee or whatever, someone who has a little bit of a vision or a little bit of coordination just because when you have a group of people there is always someone who takes the lead and I think that's necessary to coordinate in proper way and to give direction somewhere.  Although I think that this direction can be found in a very democratic and open way for everyone.  And second I think this is extremely demanding for one person or two persons.  If you are just informally like you feel the need that this group needs a leader and you are doing it but it is always nice if you feel that the others in the way appreciate this and they are also going with you in the same direction and that you feel some support in a way.  And the second point is that from my opinion it makes sense to have someone who is sort of let's say a contact person, like when you go to like the Internet Governance Forum now and you get in touch with the secretariat and they need one contact person to coordinate everything with, it makes sense to either appoint someone or to have a fixed person you can contact from a steering committee maybe that makes this simple, easier for the outside world or get in touch with the entire coalition in a way.  Thank you.  

>> Well, I think that what we need is action because currently I feel that young people are way too underrepresented here at the IGF.  So we shouldn't make this jobs or this Chairman and Vice Chair thing as a threshold question.  We should just basically elect these people or just decide these people as soon as possible.  And then go in to the main issues.  So I think we should look at those people who are willing to do these things and then yeah.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Yes.  Okay.  We just started to talk about the election.  So we    usually we only focus on what we have to do and to try to coordinate for youth issues.  But maybe so we can postpone this point because it is and to try to find some formulation, what we can    what    I understand now that just people that we have a Chair or coordinator or someone who is taking the leadership and then afterward we can find how we can make the election or the nomination but we are not going in to a real too many details, to make it more informal, something flexible.  

>> Can I put forth a concrete suggestion there?  Sorry.  

>> Hi everyone.  I am sorry.  I came in late.  I am Julia from the United States and I am here representing another coalition, the Right to Research Coalition which is 5 million students internationally advocating for open access to research policies.  I am also the immediate past President and ex officiado of an organisation representing all the students in the United States who are studying and getting doctorate's degrees.  Since a steering committee can be 10, 15 people, why can't we just have everyone in the room who wants to be on the steering committee just commit right now to being on the steering committee.  I don't think there needs to be an official process with this and have a listserv and do that and from that committee somebody could be elected to Chair.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  So what you suggest we start now to form a steering committee with the people here?  

>> Julia:  Why not?  If we are here we are interested, right?  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Yes.  But how to say many people cannot make it to come to IGF.  So other members who cannot make it to IGF.  

>> Julia:  Right.  We could add more members but I am saying to start this process    right.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Okay.  We start the nomination now and to see if some people self nominate them.  

>> Julia:  Yeah. 

>> We need to start.  Why not right now.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Okay.  Why not.  

>> The process is a bit frustrating.  Let's figure out what we want to do and do it like now, please.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Okay.  We can start.  

>> I think at first we have to define what we want and where our area of action.  We want Internet or what suits us and we want, for example, to get assess for all (Off microphone) 24 hours a day.  We need to find a topic and what we are interested in in the beginning.  

>> Can    I don't want to take us back to committees and actions.  We have someone who interfaces with the IGF to arrange how workshops happen and then there are themic things where someone says I want to lead a small group of people working on gaming and then that person leads that group and if we don't decide on exactly who those people are that's okay.  We need to decide on what those actions are and we need to use the mailing list on who that key liaison person is.  Does that make sense?  I think the summary was we need to decide on the actions now but we need someone in the IGF liaison role because that's the crucial one that (inaudible) has been playing and that is a responsibility that I think someone needs the recognition for as well as doing the hard work on.  

>> I guess our key competence is gaming and communication, social networks and we need to define what we want.  I guess who communicates want, to communicate every time and everywhere about everything and for another site who wants gaming and want to (Off microphone). 

>> MALTE SPITZ:  I think we already had this discussion around a half a year ago when we formulated our own mission statement which I think is a four page paper where we defined what do we wanted a Dynamic Coalition for, what is the issues and what is the specific view of young people on these topics, because I think it is much more than just social networking or just playing online games because it is much more a view from the we would say biggest stakeholder group on the issues which we are here talking about at the IGF and like every other stakeholder group we have a specific view on all these issues.  And therefore it would be I think much more interesting to talk about the plan, what do we want in the next 12 months.  And therefore I think it is necessary to have some kind of structure where in the past mailing list, which I think there are around 40 people on, but only 5 to 10 people are working on the list.  Like commenting, writing proposals and all that stuff.  And we also need some kind of structure for the IGF secretariat as a person who can be contacted, who can write the proposals for the meetings and who can also maybe do some coordination for extra meeting sites inside IGF.  If you wanted virtually you can do it like this if we get funding, we can also have a real meeting.  But I think the easiest way would be if maybe we can just scroll through the mission statement so all people can see that we already have some focuses and then really going on in the project work part of the one or two main points where we want to work on the next month.   

>> So my proposal would be we try to form a structure in which you can work on maybe or as soon as possible and after we did that we can still set our goals and directions but in a more structured way.  Of course, it takes some effort to accomplish this and to do the formal stuff but it will simply make the work easier afterwards.  So we can like propose that one spokesman or one person to contact and so on.  And I like the idea from the American lady which name I forgot. 

>> Julia:  Julia.  Thank you.  

>> Just setting up a list and doing this as fast as possible.  Thank you.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Just to repeat what do you mean by listing?  We have already a mailing list. 

>> No, no, a list of people who would be interested to work actively in the formal structure. 

>> As in just checking they are actually willing to do stuff and who can be working in case there is something needed to be done, in case we need to get something done.  

>> We could do like with a hand sign who would be interested in working on this. Okay.  Cool.  So we know that plenty of people would be interested to work on this.  So we could go forward, a different structure as I think proposed and then start working on the contents.  This would be my proposal.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  What do you propose exactly?  I didn't get your point.  

>> Ahh.  So that we right now define a structure as you opened that powerpoint document there.  And after defining the structure working in a structure and allowing us to get started as soon as possible with content and representing the younger generation at IGF.  

>> So just about the content, as Malte mentioned before we already made some content on what we want to do.  So it is mostly what we    we have the youngest    yeah.  The next generation.  So we have, what, maybe more concrete actions, more action plans that we want to do for the next month.  We already defined some objective.  So it is more we wanted to do and how will we do that.  

>> Sorry.  

>> DMITRY EPSTEIN:  That's okay.  So first of all, I would like to encourage everybody here before they speak to say your name.  It isn't possible to follow this conversation without knowing who is speaking.  So kind of leading with example my name is Dmitry Epstein.  I am here as an ISO ambassador.  This is my personal opinion.  I am speaking in my personal capacity.  There are a few points that I agree with what's being said here.  We need some sort of function that first of all will link us to IGF and IGF is a bureaucracy after all.  There should be some formal liaison to IGF.  But we need a function that links us to the organisation.  We do not have to necessarily follow what the other coalitions do.  I mean we can make our own rules and we don't have to have the president, vice president structure.  I mean this up to us to decide but we do need a structure and we do need a point of coordination with the IGF.  And another point I agree that we should act now in building your juris proposal and perhaps we can form a temporary, whatever we call it, like active group that will have kind of a sort of limited mandate to actually get things done.  Like formalize this function.  Get an action plan going and we don't even have to wait too much.  We are here for three days.  We don't need this room to actually draft an action plan.  There is a value of us being    can you turn down the microphone please?  Thanks.  Because it was ringing.  
So we don't have to wait for    we don't have to take an entire month to do that.  We can start doing right now.  Three days is a lot of time and I think we can carve time to meet anywhere else in the venue and work on it.  One point I disagree, I don't know what your names are but in terms of topics, I do think that this coalition should have a say beyond social networks and online gaming.  What happens in this Forum is basically the idea of what the Internet will look like in the next 10, 15, how many years is taking place and we are going to use it.  And I think we should be more involved and more informed about discussions that are going on elsewhere.  Maybe involved in those discussions.  We should not nick ourselves for what others think that is what youth do is play games and they Facebook and they don't really care about anything else that is going on.  We should give this initiative to them.  I think our voice should be other issues.  That's it.  

>> Yes.  Let's define the issues.  Who cares.  Who cares.  

>> JANIS KARKLINS:  Well, it is    I know where you are going.  I agree on most of    sorry.  Janis Karklins from Finland.  I know we are going to be on agreement on many things.  Free access for information on a lot of stuff and I don't know if anyone here wants censorship or anything.  So it is these sorts of things that people have been debating a lot and many of those Forums that we should be able to discuss ourselves.  Not a specific topic that should be attributed to youth.  

>> DUDLEY PERRY:  Dudley Perry.  I think what, sorry, is important we should be doing is not only setting things up as to how we want the Internet to be run currently for the needs we have now but to be looking ahead because we are going to be the adults in a few years which is an obvious statement but we are    the way things are run now may not    we may foresee things that adults may not that we want changing.  It is not just the issues currently.  It is the issues in the future which need working.  It is important now that youths get heard because we are going to be the one that is going to have to deal with the decisions made at events like these where the adults will not get as much of their time out of the decisions as us. 

>> TIM DAVIES:  Just a process point. which is a Web site we put up.  I just put a link to the charter and directly to the recommendations that we put last year.  The four points that were put forward last year and then we can say what's missing and what else do we need to add to those.  Four points were ensure the presence of young people in all relevant panels and workshops including the main session.  So we have to ask ourselves have we succeeded in doing that.  Are young people well represented in the panels and sessions.  
Secondly, the goal was that youth key players of Internet Governance should be considered stakeholders and should not be restricted to specific issues.  And youth participants and experts should be involved in all IGF discussions and debates and we strongly urge the MAG group to include more youth representatives representing gender and youth balance.  The first two points we have to take stock at the end of this year and say have we succeeded.  10 percent more sessions or less.  Are youth being taken seriously.  
Other two points when talking about child rights we should place a focus on the enjoyment to access information based on the discussions in Egypt, whether there was enough about protecting children from harmful content.  Making sure we are speaking up for children's rights.  And lastly our point was when talking about sexuality we should also place a focus on the positive impact of the Internet on sexual and reproductive rights in that.  And again in Egypt there was discussion focused on the negative side of the web rather than positive.  Now maybe not our work but I think this year there has been discussions moving that agenda forward and we should look at where was the involvement of the youth in those two. 

>> Just I think also we meant that the ideas try to list many issues.  Maybe if you can share    

>> I report that I set up a PiratePad or something like that so we can work together on that text which is making your process a bit easier.  

>> Just about the text that Tim put, it was official statement.  So we can work another text.  

>> Okay.  But it is always good to have one source.  We are working one place all working.  Because there is the PiratePad web page.  It is like a text phone    

>> If you refresh ycig there is now an EtherPad if people want to use it.  

>> MOHAMMED FATHY:  My name is Mohammed Fathy.  I am representing the United Nations and I am from Egypt.  First I came late.  So I am sorry for that.  I was catching another meeting.  Second I would like to thank Rafik for the efforts he has done in taking the initiatives from the beginning.  Thank you, Rafik, for helping to have this come through.  Second, I second Tim and Dmitry for what they said.  I totally agree with what you guys said.  We need to come up with a structure.  And we might want to take the opportunity since like a significant group of our team is present might want to like invest the upcoming two days coming up with something, like a small focus group to come up with something and share it with the rest of the group.  I recognize there are many key persons who are not present with us.  So I think what will come up can be represented to them and have the like kind of consensus ideas, something like that.  So I am totally for having like a strong start.  And again thank you Rafik for taking the initiative and doing all that.  Thanks.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  So maybe what I can suggest we have some people who are not in the mailing list.  They can't join today and we can start a discussion in our mailing list so we can share with all members and yeah, we can have    share this space that people can work and to benefit that we are present and here for IGF to draft the document.  

>> Timeout on PiratePad.  I can't reach it.  

>> It's gone down.  I will just try and get it back.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  So just maybe after    I am not sure    I will add all those people to the mailing list that I have here on this list and we can start from there.  We can start a new thread in total and maybe if there is    maybe a few people who are    want to volunteer these two days, maybe we can set up informal discussions just maybe for 30 minutes.  

>> DUDLEY PERRY:  Dudley Perry.  What would be the intended outcome of these discussions over the next two days?  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  So I understand what we want to do.  What kind of action we want to do.  So to go more concrete.  We had that document with some objective.  Honestly we    especially for the case of the youth representation in the main station and workshops or in MAG we couldn't make it.  We don't have enough time and we wanted    the problem that even the    some of them are present in the programme paper, but if you see in the main session there is no young people in as panelists.  So we try to    we have all these people suggesting many ideas.  If we can draft some document summarizing some actions maybe for the next 12 months.  

>> BIANCA HO:  I am sorry.  So adding on to the recommendations, I think the youth dynamic coalition can act as a platform for youth where they can share what they are doing in their home countries.  So I think there are a lot of efforts being done in your respective countries and be beneficial to have a platform using and leveraging the Web site that you currently have to share the best practices what they have done and kind of build that kind of synergy between different youth.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Indeed, Bianca, for you to share your experience from the Asia Pacific.  And we have some reports from Malte.  He attended already and he brings what happened there and he even mentioned there was not so much talk about youth.  We have many people who can report to the coalition what's happened in other countries and other regions and share this experience.  

>> MALTE SPITZ:  Hi participants.  I think what would be a good thing is to have a paper or a declaration or an    I don't know what kind of format sending to the IGF secretariat when they get the youth five year term in and the General Assembly to call that now after five years of less or no participation in the main panels and so on by the IGF.  It would be good to start the next five years with a new approach to focusing more on young people in the IGF structure now.  I think it could be a good way to talk about this with the youth delegates of the different countries who are at the General Assembly in New York.  So we also have different countries who are supporting us and talk to the IGF secretariat to call for more participation.  And I think this would be now after five years and now for the next five years a concrete action for our mission.  And the second thing would be maybe to focus on the next 12 months on youth and Internet Governance in the African region because the next IGF will be in Africa again.  And looking back what is a meeting last year in Sharm El Sheikh who can see that there is a big regional difference when talking about participation of young people in the IGF process and I think that Africa has a lot of opportunities but also some regions or some stakeholder groups where young people are involved in.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Thank you.  I think that you make real interesting suggestions, especially why not, true, if we have these two days to prepare a statement for the taking stock of Internet Governance and the way forward.  We are already here and if we can make it as soon as possible we    and someone can volunteer to speak in the main session and to make that statement.  

>> I am sorry, are you referring to a paper?  What do you mean by statement?  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Okay.  We can say declaration statement.  So we    statement during the main session.  I will just say it is quite    IGF terminology.  So just a short declaration.  So we can express our critiques, maybe what kind of issues that we think. 

>> I guess the main point of this statement is to mention that yes, we are and yes, we care but just to point the key issues.  That's enough for those.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Just yes, we are and yes, we care I think.  

>> I mean it is    just form in words a very presented structure kind of to show the picture. 

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  I would say it is more    for example, we have    we talked about there is no people like in the MAG or no young people in the main session.  So we can express and talk about that in the statement.  I am not sure how long, maybe three minutes, something like that.  And    after it will be in the IGF pool and on the Web site. 

>> So that kind of sounds like a session paper, right, that everyone has to submit at IGF. 

>> No.  


>> Something similar?  

>> MALTE SPITZ:  It would be to formulate a concrete statement which is maybe five minutes long for the end session on Friday and the idea would be afterwards to formulate it as a written paper which you can circulate on the mailing list which you can circulate to all the youth delegates on the United Nations General Assembly and also maybe ask some countries to join this statement and send the statement to the Secretary General and to send it to the IGF secretariat for the plannings now for the next five years.   

>> First of all, I totally support us having a statement at the last session, the taking stock session.  Secondly is I have a question.  So what have we done that we deserve the support of other people?  And is there a way that we are taking stock of what we have done?  For example, I know there are some people who are panelists in workshops and some people who are making good statements and some people who are even making workshops.  Is there a place you can find all this information about the contribution of dynamic youth coalition to the IGF and if not can we quickly make it?  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  You mean what we did for this IGF?  

>> Yes. 

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  I sent an e mail to summarize what we organise for workshop.  

>> That is one workshop.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  No, not one workshop.  

>> And also the individuals who formulate the coalition.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Yeah, yeah.  In the mailing list we ask people if they are panelists.  Even yourself you replied to that thread on the mailing list.  Any comment?  

>> Just commenting on what you said.  Before the meeting I think everyone just mentioned the workshop they are participating in and so we have now like no    who is participating in what but it would be a good idea to like list all the sessions that we organise, participated at it and put it as our contribution to the IGF.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Yes.  To follow up after this IGF to report what our members did and maybe for these telecommunications and even if their own capacity.  Okay.  So I think  maybe we should find how to start this, to make this statement.  We can just say we have one day.  

>> DMITRY EPSTEIN:  This is Dmitry again.  I am a little bit lost because we discussed a number of topics here and I don't think we can reach a conclusion of any of them.  So perhaps we could    I don't know.  I would like to have a kind of decisions if we may.  So we talked about forming let's call it structure, like forming some kind of team that could work on it now while we are here.  We can decide on that.  We can put names on paper.  We don't need to go too long.  We have another question about preparing the statement.  Am I missing anything?  Was there    I feel like there were three topics that we kind of touched on. 

>> We wanted to have a list of people who are presenting, right, at IGF.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Okay.  I will try to summarize what we discussed.  So first as you say that we need that structure to form this structure.  Maybe we can do that in one month or two.  So after the IGF.  But during this IGF we need to make the statement for the last day.  And also what Malte said after the IGF but before the General Assembly, United Nations about continuation of IGF, et cetera, and what else?  What Grace asked is to summarize and to report what were the Dynamic Coalition participation or what the Dynamic Coalition organise it for the IGF and where    how was the participation of our members.  So we have four points.  

>> And just one more comment.  I think there are urgent things and important things.  So yes, we need a statement and that's urgent.  But I think if we want to form this group of people who will work on like putting a structure in place, while we are here and if this group will not start brainstorming while it is here, we may find ourselves next year at another Dynamic Coalition meeting discussing the same questions.  So just putting it out there.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Yes.  As we said we have the statement and we can start the forming but just maybe to make a list of who wants to volunteer and we have the commitment to that for the next day or next weeks.  

>> TIM DAVIES:  Can I suggest two practical things?  One, if you go to the ycig you can refresh that page again.  The top link is to a PiratePad which is a collaborative realtime Wiki where some of us have already been taking notes on what we just said our actions are.  And I also put down a section on what should a statement contain because I think even if a small two or more people leave this meeting and draft that statement it is up to everyone here what to they need to be saying in there.  If you have any difficulty accessing that or using that just talk to us because we can keep that running.  
The second practical thing is more for us which is if we commit and put our hand up at the moment and say we may want to work on something yeah, we may not work on that for a few weeks, but the most important is to find the other people who would work on that and make personal contact and exchange personal details so you can work on that without necessarily waiting for the e mails to come around.  Otherwise we get on that slow after we get from the IGF and we are exhausted and slow to work on those things.   

>> You are working with the same text and it remains in the same status.  So lost and easier to use than a mailing list.  Just to add this.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  So maybe we can list who wants to volunteer and separate them.  I don't have a blank paper.  You can circulate.  Yes.  Or you can take notes and type it there.  

>> Sorry.  Are we nominating ourselves to work on the statement or join the steering committee?  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  It is a forming that we work and it is a statement    this committee is more for the forming. 

>> The statement?  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  No, forming the steering committee but the statement is open to everyone. 

>> I am just wondering because I can jump on board with the steering committee but I am obligated to APC for the rest of this conference.  So I am not going to have time to work on the document because I am working on other documents.  Where and how we are going to go about that and I    

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  If you want to join the list for the forming structure but you cannot    you have    you have no time for the statement?  

>> I don't think I am going to have time for the statement, no, because I am having to monitor themes that I have happening coming up here.  That's where my energy is at the moment but I can work once back home basically.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Okay.  

>> I don't know if that makes sense. 

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Okay.  

>> I just put everything on the pad and everyone who wants to help just go there.  It doesn't take any finger pointing and nobody needs to feel guilty that didn't have time.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Okay.  

>> You might be someone to volunteer to start writing the names of who is interested to join.  Yes.  

>> Writing them down on the pad.  So if you put your hand up we will write it down.  We are writing the names of individuals down on the pad.  If you put your hand up we will write you down and we will have it documented.  Thank you.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Yeah, your names and contacts.  I don't have the contacts of everyone here. 

>> LEON BAYER:  Yes.  Okay.  If you put your hand up and are interested in working with the project and say your name and some e mail address or something like that.  Leon Bayer and my e mail address is right on the pad and everybody can look it up.  

>> Yes, just keep loading.  When everyone gets on the panel.  

>> You link your power and not your pad    

>> Oh, yeah, it works as well.  

>> Power pad is working.  Here is the link.  

>> That's in the Web site.  

>> Tim, could you update the link on the Web page?  Good.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Yeah, yeah you can.  

>> TIM DAVIES:  So on here if you go to there is a link on here to and so on.  You see here there is a text area and if I add it everyone sees my edits instantly and you can discuss and you can update the text and together things can be drafted.  So I now want to add in here that I am volunteering I can put my name if I can type.  And the bottom link there is PiratePad.  Text and discussions.  So this is one tool we can use to very quickly get a list together if people find it useful.  We may decide it is not.  But it is there as an option.  

>> Thanks.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Okay.  So can everyone access to the    that space?  Okay.  

>> Now this is a vision working.  

>> Rafik, this is Mes.  Is there any chance any remote participants who express interest in their name being added?  

>> Because they can join the pad and write their notes down there.  So it is open to anybody.  We post the URL there. 

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  We don't have remote participants.  Unfortunately the remote participation channel is not active.  I think at least we planned some action for the short term.  And I hope that that forming currently we can figure out about the steering committee issues and then we can really start and the more important things we relate to the actions for the Dynamic Coalition for the next year.   

>> How can I join this group?  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Just you join the mailing list.  I will add you there.  

>> Okay.  I mean so before this wasn't an official group. 

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  What group you mean?  

>> You are referring to saying that not everyone is here as our member.  Is there anything I need to do to become a member?  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  The youth coalition members who are not here.  Yeah.  Any point?  Okay.  If you want to say something. 

>> Sorry.  When does the report need to be ready?  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Sorry?  

>> The report, when does it have to be ready?  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Which report?  We have many reports to    

>> Because in the PiratePad it says volunteering for the report.  So I thought that that was the one that needs to be    

>> Is that the statement?  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Yes.  It is the statement.  

>> And instead of just wording volunteers we can immediately start writing it right here right now.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  But maybe we need some deadline because for that issue it will be in the afternoon Friday, but maybe we need to finish in the morning and we need to    someone to volunteer to speak to everybody. 

>> Sorry, do we have any like former statement or something that we could use to draft a new one?  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  What    the statement we did before is for to launch the youth coalition during the open consultation.  

>> I would like to propose any of the native English speakers to speak in front of them all and it is maybe easier for them and the pronunciation sounds better. 

>> Or those who have studied.  

>> AMR EL SADR:  Sort of find a statement like during EURODIG which is European Dialogue on Governance.  We have two examples as a source of inspiration.  And about having this speech is like I don't think it matters whether you are a native speaker or not.  As long as you can articulate yourself in a proper way and that everyone gets it.  I don't think that the point and maybe Rafik, since you initiated this whether you would like to take that one. 

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  You want me to talk in the main session?  Okay.  Good luck.  Why not.  Okay.  But anyway, maybe we need that for the deadline, that it will be ready in    Friday morning at least and we need maybe some proofreading or something like that.  

>> So I think what we need is first of all, we need our content.  And secondly we need somebody who is    yeah, proofreading so there are no mistakes in it and then that's it basically.  Maybe we should form a work group who is willing to meet at some other time to write the text down.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Okay.  For that maybe as we    we will have some examples to put them in the Pirate space and then maybe we can have a meeting, informal meeting tomorrow.  

>> Okay.  Since I take it we are now discussing the statement for Friday is this an opportunity for anyone who would like to raise some issues that should go to that statement, maybe to raise them so that they are captured by the people who have volunteered to make their statement?  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Yeah.  We can start to list some issues.  Please can you volunteer to type them in that?  Okay.  Okay.  Who wants to start?  

>> I think we should in the statement recognize that progress has been made towards greater youth engagement diplomatically and positively and we need to build on that more and not particularly have young people and young adults to have a culture of their voice, and what I have heard from people in sessions is about some comments about youth that have been unhelpful and in terms of any other minority it would not be accepted. 

>> I can copy already what you said in the statement.  So get working on it.  

>> Sorry.  Question.  A question about the paper, is it about making a stance that youth should be more taken in to consideration in the future planning of IGF, or are we saying that hey, we exist and we want to cooperate with you?  So what is the stance?  

>> Sorry.  My opinion I think it is stating simply that we are also stakeholders.  So when we consider anything around the IGF the youth need to be right up there with civil society.  It is realising it is not tokenism and we have power and we need to get there. 

>> And I think that Grace raised an important point and that people will continue the IGF and the form it will continue in.  Most proposals are most likely to talk about the formally structured IGF, more Governments as key players that A, civil society is having to fight harder to get heard and in that list is young people.  I think there needs to be something that as the IGF considers its future structure it needs to make sure it doesn't go backwards to listening to key stakeholders and when recognizes when you prioritize formal structures you prioritize people who have 30, 40 years of Government, get sent to an event whereas an open Forum allows people to come for their interest and passion and their cause and not necessarily their role or status.  

>> They don't form a special caucus at like IGF.  So a special group, a space where we get sent off to chat among ourselves that we are actually brought in to the same space.  Am I making sense?  Because you are frowning at me.  Basically that they don't put us in a corner somewhere and they bring us in to a decision making and that's what we have to fight for. 

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  The idea is not to limit us to some topics, and just like you said in some corner but to participate in all Internet Governance, to be part of the process decision making process.  But just to mention the youth caucus, that's why I was    but because the roles and experience during Oasis of Youth participation but after that it stopped and mostly all those people left the Internet Governance community.  But just we can talk about the continuation of the IGF, like how the youth will be really represented there under all aspects.  IGF.  Maybe in the MAG.  Maybe in the main session and in the workshop and the discussion about the youth are the stakeholders but also present in all other stakeholders.  Okay.  

>> AMR EL SADR:  I am not so sure but I think I don't know whether this was in Tripoli to have more youth represented in the preparatory processes, but I think they took more youth in the IGF secretariat and in the MAG.  So maybe that is just something that we should acknowledge.  Then just to play the devil's advocates I could ask everyone in the room if we are to be given a chance to say what we want in the next IGF which will be in Kenya, what would we ask for as the Dynamic Coalition on youth?   

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Um, so you mean for the next year?  So what you    we want for the next IGF?  

>> Okay.  Fine.  I will jump in.  I am not quite sure    I mean if I am suggesting things and if they are in the appropriate space.  But, for instance, when I noticed there has been a very little discussion on issues.  So, for instance, I like to plot the human rights theme, especially sexuality and gender based and gender based violence.  An experience I had in Toki I was trying to access LGBT Web sites just to stay up to date with what's happening in Africa and I couldn't get access and that has implications for youth data.  If people can't access data they can't do anything.  You need to be able to access that content.  I don't know if I am making sense but that's where I am.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Yes, it makes sense.  If you remember    

>> You just keep frowning at me.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Don't worry, I am just reading that screen.  Because sometimes I can't get what everyone says.  I need to read.  But as I said that we make that statement, we just highlighted some issues but we need to talk about as much as    as much as we can and but also we need to    because we don't have    I think just five minutes for that statement.  So maybe what we want to focus and prioritize.  We don't exclude any issues.  Okay.  

>> Considering doing attending panels and giving summaries or management on some other panels I realise that often I just ignore what you are saying because you are like 15 and skip to the next one.  Don't even react.  And this is simply an issue we have to focus on.  So that treat younger people like normal people and treat their opinion as valuable as every other opinion, too.  Actually this is the point on the IGF but it is not quite working, and secondly, you mentioned open or you mentioned access blocking in Toki.  For my opinion this is a basic issue we have to work on, but it is something we have to postpone because right now we want to give a statement on the work on IGF and not about our basic    

>> No, no.  I understand what you are saying but you see that was like a mattering last point on my behalf.  A statement I would like to put forth for the next IGF or space is that human rights issues need to be addressed with particular emphasis on, for instance, persons with disabilities, sexuality, gender.  I don't know if this is the appropriate space for this.  

>> The workshop that you attend. 

>> There is only one.  

>> Hello to young people watching in Belfast.  And we have three people joining and they agree with the key things being said.  And the point that struck me as we were speaking about the need to focus on issues I have watched so many presentations that are people presenting a case study of a project or presenting a case study of a research paper and actually we need to create a space for people to tell the story as a young person, as a child or as a young adult interacting with the Internet.  Tomorrow or on Friday I will be sharing the story of youth work as I work with people who are not able to support young people in line because of the policies on social networking sites.  I will do that in a fairly abstract way.  But it would be good to have that story being told in sessions to make sure people listen more and just challenging the structure in that way.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Just to jump the team mentioned about workshops.  So tomorrow there will be a workshop in Room 3 about social networking and e participation, what citizens look for.  And Friday, just, Friday there will be the Core Internet Values and Principles across generations and there is also, I am not sure the one organisation    

>> It is well being of    we have a session of well being of youth and parenting networks and that's a session on Friday.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Okay.  We have also a youth workshop organised by the youth coalition called Internet for Youth Beyond Safety Issues in Room 3 tomorrow at 9.  Leon?  

>> LEON BAYER:  Yes.  I would like to just bring up one more point because there is some people that is calling people can be bought by politicians or whatever in their kind of organisations which always brings up like generic statements at every kind of workshop and not expressing any kind of opinion.  We should include this and say clearly we are separated from them and that we are not belonging to any organisation except this one we are currently founding.  

>> Yes, I just want to say that I think building up to the IGF actually there are a lot of people who have come together to put efforts in putting statements together.  I was wondering, perhaps one of the recommendations would be to gather those statements and build upon them rather than doing something completely from scratch since a lot of people have already put effort in to thinking about what they want.  They are out there.  The people are here now.  Why not take the chance, right?  

>> But maybe it is about contributing to that and expanding on that document that exists.  I think any space is a healthy space to raise those issues and then collaborate.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  I think what maybe you want to say for the youth camp, the IGF youth camp they made a statement or    

>> Like from what I understand their efforts in Hong Kong and Denmark and London there are youth groups that have come together to talk about what they want and have a pretty good understanding of what IGF is trying to achieve.  Why    like if we can have a platform that gathers these people together and we gather what's in their pocket and put it out there and expand upon that.  If we start from scratch we are doing what people have done already.  

>> One, if you have the text of any of those, the PiratePad is running and go right down to the bottom and paste it in there and we can copy and paste up and use some of those.  And the other one at the moment Rafik and I have admin rights on the ycig or blog and I think we should offer that editing to anyone who wants to post those documents up.  Either e mail to us or I guess we have no policy to how we get access to that.  But I think we can, can't we?  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  I thought maybe like if you wanted to post something we can give you the grant to post to the blog. 

>> Absolutely.  If you know where those documents are because the youth IGF documents are surprisingly hard to find on line.  If you can find those and share those we would be really happy with that. 

>> If you know people who have done it already it is also worth to send them an e mail and encourage them to come join us. 

>> Tim, could you maybe speak up or go a bit here to your microphone because you were hard to understand.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Okay.  Just we talk about what other people already done.  But here in the youth coalition we just try to coordinate.  So that's the main idea.  Are not going to reinvent the wheel but we just try to    that's why we are trying to bring more people, more organisations and we share our experience and to try to coordinate our actions.  I think for the youth IGF if you are talking about the documents it is hard to find on the Internet because they use Facebook. 

>> I contributed to that document as well.  I can probably find that for you guys.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  You can put it in the PiratePad.  

>> Yes.  Yeah, I think Bianca is going to send you our version that we came up actually from the youth IGF in Hong Kong. 

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  I think it is one of the ideas to list all this initiatives on the    related to youth, like youth IGF or youth camp, et cetera, because we have many listed but not everyone is aware about.  Okay.  

>> And I think you can also serve as a platform where youth who are interested in Internet Governance can learn more about different initiatives and possibly volunteer in asking them to devote their efforts in to that.  So I think adding on to Desiree's point that's a useful platform. 

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  That's why we started the youth Web site.  We tried to report    to make a report about IGF, about workshop, et cetera.  So we can start from that and if someone wants to write or post something we can give the    

>> So I think now is actually the question of publicizing the platform, right?  If we can get the platform and get everyone who has made the effort on to that same platform then we become more efficient and we can reduce the effort that we are spending repeating what has been done.  So I guess we can choose a platform maybe.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  You want to talk about technology platform something?  

>> No, no.  Like everyone has to know like what medium by which we were going to do this, right?  

>> We have our mailing list.  So we can web an interface for the mailing list.  So people who don't know about the mailing list could join it easier.  

>> TIM DAVIES:  But again if you go to, scroll on the right hand side you can enter your e mail address and you can be on the mailing list and we will make sure we send stuff around.  

>> Yes.  Well, I am completely new and I just joined your group.  It is very interesting your debate.  I would like to add something about the tool you use.  You say you have a mailing list but at the same time you say you try to coordinate all the efforts made by youth around the IGF.  Are you sure that the mailing list is enough?  I think she is right, a platform not a Web site but a Forum, at least something where everyone can contribute.  

>> Mailing list, there is basically nothing in Forum and e mail Forum and it is easier to read because of your inbox.  

>> TIM DAVIES:  We have three tools.  If you have things to publish or things you want to write, documents, we have the and Rafik and I can give you access to post documents there.  If you want to discuss with other people, the mailing list is run on Google groups and it has a web interface that works as a Forum or goes to your e mail box and it is really important to have an e mail interface for those on low bandwidth.  And the third tool we have just started using now is the PiratePad.  And anyone can create those.  Any time you think that the coalition needs to draft a document and go to and you put in your e mail. 

>> May I add something?  It is great in this tool but as coordinator I don't know how it works.  Shouldn't you contact these people and be like proactive and get the papers, publish them and don't wait for them to    

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  I want to reply.  I try to contact people to outsource.  It is not easy.  Every time they reply to me.  So I ask them please can you talk about your experience, your initiative.  But if they don't send any information we cannot do    we cannot have that.  So we try to do as much as we can and we hope that people to be aware and they are    to share their experience.  

>> Maybe you should think about an RSC channel or something like that and cast your event and we need realtime communication and e mail is failing there.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  I see.  Okay.  

>> TIM DAVIES:  So to close on coordination, I have just updated again and there is a link in the PiratePad where people can add comments and it is up to us right now to go outside IGF and ask people who have statements, to share them with us and share them there and we can draft a document for Rafik to read in 48 hours' time.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  In 15 minutes I have another workshop.  Maybe we need to wrap up this meeting. 

>> So how are you going to keep us updated?  Are you going to throw everyone on the mailing list and e mail us with what's happening?  Or are we congregating online or offline?  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  I assume that everyone here, that people put his or her name on the list is willing to join our youth coalition.  It is because it is open to everyone.  And then we can start to discuss there, because to keep us updated our members who are not attending the IGF.  But for the offline, maybe if we can make it that we are informal, short informal meeting for tomorrow.  But depends to the    maybe can be complicated.  

>> Yes.  Just so how can everyone work while perhaps waiting for e mails just    okay.  Echo.  At least put all your names and the addresses if you want to be an active member or just working with this in the beginning to the pad which was like opened right there and everyone can go there.  You can just quickly copy/paste all our contact details and then everyone else can see them as well for this group if you want to actually get it working quicker than just waiting for Rafik to send an e mail, which we hope he will do quickly concerning collecting all this stuff.  We can also plan several aspects of what we have been planning here already in there.  That's something we can work on today and if    only thing that was left open to me at the moment was that if we want stories or statements or something like this to use, more specifically what are we looking at for    of course, we can contact people quickly and say hey, can you write me something.  What sort of material we are looking for so I can start calling people and e mailing them and giving links to the pad and everything.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Emailing them for what?  For that statement?  I think we need some draft before starting that process. 

>> Yes, this draft is there and it is editable.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Rough draft    because as I say now just we have different part, et cetera.  

>> In PiratePad you can ask revisions and every character you type different versions.  We can have a time slot and go back and choose the draft you want.  

>> TIM DAVIES:  Anyone's whose e mail address is in the PiratePad for drafting the statement I will e mail this evening with where it has got to at that point and a copy of what's there late this evening.  And in that e mail maybe Rafik and I can talk and suggest a time to meet tomorrow.  And by that time whatever is there that group will say okay, we need to tidy that up now so it is not any more editing.  That gives time for people to throw things in and brainstorm all the ideas and tomorrow we can tidy that up.  

>> Yes.  And I think keep your eye open on all the promotional materials out there.  I think I have picked up a few statements already because a lot of people are trying to get their word across by printing materials, but because of the natural tendency to through in on chairs that are lying around.  Pick them up and take a look at them and if you find some statements that are relevant to what we have and we can contact those people who have those statements and say we want to use what they have.  

>> I would suggest we can set up, make a time coordination when we have more time to make a meeting to write a document.  So Rafik, could you do that?  Like    

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Set up a time?  

>> Yes.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  I think we need to finish this session.  And first thank you to everyone who attended.  Especially who knew    new people to the coalition and it was a really interesting discussion and debate.  And I am happy that I think that we are meeting more people and we hope with our coalition we can coordinate more and we have more actions over the next year.  And for that please I ask all people that they can spread the word about youth coalition and to try to make more people and organisation.  So any points before finishing this session?  Any comments?  Any    okay.  

>> It is one final comment.  I am aware that we are like still in the beginning and we need to come up with a structure for this so that we agree on the action plan for the upcoming like one year.  But we need also to have in mind, to bear in mind that we need to get like a kind of projects or tangible projects, tangible objectives so that we are determined to do that.  Also the help of our organisations, each of us are related somehow to one reputable organisation somehow.  So we need to use the support of that organisation to help that coalition in a way or another.  So we need to bring that to the table so we won't forget that we    for my part, for being, representing the Egyptian Ministry of Communication and the peace movement and I commit myself and my organisation to the success of the coalition and I think we should all think the same way.  Thank you.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Thank you.  Oh, please.  

>> Sorry.  Just a short comment.  I work for an organisation called Insafe.  I don't know if you have heard about it.  We run the youth panel and in Luxemburg it would be the youth panel.  You are talking about spreading the word.  I can have a space in our newsletter because the topic will be the voice of youth.  So if you are interested, if you want to publish in that we can publish it.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Thank you very much for this offer.  

>> And probably for the meeting time we should probably choose just 1, 2 or 3 because we can't coordinate 20 people's meeting times.  

>> PiratePad and perhaps we can make a Doodle.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  I think that everyone, maybe we would find time during lunch but workshops will be    to maybe during lunch and try to have a meeting spot.  Okay.  But if you want to    your workshop tomorrow. 

>> All right.  One final thing, tomorrow we are holding a workshop that I am inviting all to.  It is about, you know, social platforms and what do young people look for on the Internet.  Workshop will take place at 9 p.m. tomorrow in Room No. 3.  So I would appreciate it if you are interested to come and join us.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Okay. 

>> I will be very fast.  I am part of a workshop where I will talk about the open access to research coalition Friday at 11:30 in Room 7.  Open access to research discussion and student involvement.  Come.  

>> RAFIK DAMMAK:  Thank you.  So any announcement about workshops you are welcome to do that.  Okay.  Thank you everyone.   

>> Stay in touch.