A multilingual Internet in the light of the sovereign rights of language communities

15 September 2010 - A Main Session on Diversity in Vilnius, Lithuania

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>> Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for your presence this morning.  We are glad to welcome you.  We decided to choose this with your permission.  Then addition of IGF because the distance of the IGF.  So we have a workshop separated if two periods.  The first period will be about internationalized names and writing territories.  This is the first part and I want to thank you very much.  I will ask you to explain the technical aspect for the process of communicating as seen.  The future and we'll ask to explain how much of it is expected, easier access and run over Egyptian cities as celebrated in transitional period in the Egyptian economy.  I want to welcome everyone here from perspective of going through registers and    the European situation especially as an example.  Last but not least, the European commission and I will ask the commission towards the emergence of the debate.  So, I am going to private establishment of the international aspect working good within the country codes, names, supporting organisations in December 2006.  As a result, we tune to 2007 to proceed and ask the IGSD working group to prepare a photo which the group delivered in June of 2008.  They will introduce a limited number of attachments.  As a safety, we have two letter codes in a short timeframe to meet here.  We use IMS for a track process with the process.  We are meeting October of last year.  We have provided this part as part of internationals part level.  Indeed, we approved the ISTIT fast track process.  Above all, we see it this year.  At first the caution, (Audio is fading in and out) in 2010, countries representing means which are improving Chinese and Russian.  Since June Russia, they also enjoy ETIT.  However, there is still a number of things.  For example, precarious BCTIT.  In 2010, they opted to the first domain on the past visuals and clarities of their BR CCIT domain.  Second identical request is for finding.  So, yesterday, ah, it is very interesting workshops.  We, ah, we listen to different questions which were asked by the panelists and the participants and I think that we can be    we can answer questions that were asked.  First was capacity for a number in the number of new GTITs.  The technical aspects, majority aspects were also, you know, ah, noted.  The question of the visibility and the capacity to have a real business model and luck of statistics was part to get a real application.  It is also for, ah, business, you know, deciders.  So we are now going to step in which way we need to go.  Watch out the capacity and the possibilities and what are the questions.  Because the new GTITs lead to convictions is that it's a capacity for everybody to be united in his or her had language.  But it's also a question of adversity and in opening to that, so this is a very, very important issue.  I finish my presentation with this expression from the panelists yesterday.  In developing countries, it's all a question of development not only just (Audio is fading in and out) there is an upcoming way to have several things to say we pay for the infrastructure or we pay the score of the development.  So you would pursue the matter of the process.  I look and read yesterday, um, the many countries asking for, ah, a new way to approach the question.  So the first part is about all these questions.  And we'll give the floor to the panelists.  And the second which will be moderated.  We'll take questions of languages.  So, at first, grab on.  If you expect to begin.

>> Thank you and good morning.  There are a couple of things that I think, ah, need to be implicated by the very start.  Speaking from the perspective ICANN, ICANN has more over the time it has very consistently stated the intent of the organisation is to insure and find ways to insure that countries and the people of countries will speak multiple will languages that they have the ability to express and access the internet using those languages.  That is a important ability.  One of the things that I can tell is based on feedback in the community is to build processees that open up that, you know, that ease languages and things to the world.  That's kind of based    basic principal.  Now, over on that principal will is also the ICANN as one of the core submissions insures in the coordination function that it has that the core stability of the remake system is not affected in a way.  This is most often seen in the area    we say what is code visual confusion or visual similarity?  The fact is that you do just pure Legacy and historical fact.  There have already been a large number of top of the domains in the ASCII.  The ASCII script has been created, country codes use the ISO31 system.  And they've already been there.  So they've already been allocated and they are working in a proper, normal matter.  So, when it comes to introduction of IBM, you can memorialize main names and one of the primary things is:  How do you make sure this idea that approved or is applied for does not confuse somebody who would otherwise look at the similar name perhaps in the script and say oh, they look similar.  So this area is a pretty good example there.  One way to think about the job be in front of us as a community is not just the domain name, the top of the domain as you put it into a browser or as you get in your e mail.  Think of it a little differently.  Think of if you saw the link, the URL, if you saw that on a sign as you entered this room, if you saw that on the sign of a bus as an advertisement on a banner, if you saw that, would you actually be able to say clearly that this is a topical domain in a particular language or a particular script?  Or does it look so similar to another language or another script that you could reasonably be confused.  Now, if you    look at it and say users of the language understand this and it should not be a problem.  The security angle of this is if you have    if you look at what the bad actors or criminals even with just that, they send links via email.  They send spam and send e mails in an attempt to lure you to GQ your world and take you to a place where you lose your identity, you lose money, you know, in an attempt to take things away from you.  Now, the prep is significantly heightened if you have other domains.  They label and we are on the top of the domains that if you looked at it, it could look just similar to a normal ASCII domain.  Imagine having the word Facebook be made available except that A is not the ASCII A, but it's say the Greek A.  Now, that's    it's easy to confuse.  To the computer, they look like they're two completely separate and unique domain names, but to a normal user, they will look at it and say oh, I will go to facebook.  Let me give it my personal identity.  That really brings the four tensions in the application.  The requests from various countries and various IBM participants that have whatever name they like, whatever language.  It is a balancing act and make sure that doesn't interfere with the confusion.  There are a lot of technical pieces that have to be taken into consideration, but in general, I asked them to have a process that is clear, predictable and where a country applies for a top domain and it demonstrates that these things they're asking for have    they are legitimate in some established screen.  Once the strings are by four, there's someone that evaluates them.  For a string, is the string valid in perspective.  So you should probably    there is a potential or stability on the DMS to be in trouble.  And then finally, is there some level of support from the community itself to insure that it can actually go through the process to enter the system.  The process is not anything new.  That's something that has existed for a while.  It's soon to be used in them all the way.

>> Thank you very much for your explanation of the process and the way the evaluation of the name is done.   

>> Thank you.  And I think there's a big strong developing perspective and how is he (Audio is fading in and out) so over the past, the internet has grown in a way that affected all aspects of our lives and it is definitely now more than any nation critical infrastructure and it's become a priority of the national government such as this.  As the internet is used now as a tool for information, a tool for communication and associate interactions and [INAUDIBLE] on that has been going on the services, it only makes sense to insure that all citizens are able to use it in their own Native languages.  So, why the internet access is now being listed as one of the basic services in some developed countries.  Yet language barriers states as a major hinderance that faces national governments to increase their internet update and promote online services especially in communities where a second language is uncommon.  So the lack of local language is support on the internet.  There is many obstacles that hinder those societies.  Now, a multiple internet is an enormous step as we speak of internet.  And we'll all definitely different communities and different cultures and different languages.  And of course, I alone is not an ultimate    it is one of three important bidders of multi lingual internet, but namely international nationalization and localized tools and applications.  Um, but when you qualify and    names in specific is extremely important as requests and things demonstrated.  The second IT is only not enough.  They did not address the problem of language barriers and the domain names.  The problems of translated and translator is a trademark.  So we qualify ideas that came to others language barrier problems and to seamlessly try to promote the use of online and government services where it make no sense to use a foreign language.  In that respect, it's necessary to recognize the importance of language communities that need multi lingual internet.  I personally feel multi lingual as you view a citizen right and a government obligation.  Why in some countries, international is a pressing community.  In other countries, they view a national obligation that has to be introduced by the government of a country where the community still needs further things.  It is the introduction of and operations should not undermined the security and stability of the overall system.  Yet, it is also important to note that with this principal, being respected, national language communities should also be respected in terms of choosing their most appropriate string beside them on a number of ITM strings the cultural will and linguistic community concern.  I think the policies have been respected and operating and all applicable national laws.

In conclusion, we should think out of the box and try to be as innovative and creative as when the internet started.  We shall try to satisfy the needs of the different language communities.  And we should make sure that [INAUDIBLE] comprise our future agendas.  Very quickly to highlight on what you mentioned about yesterday's economic aspect being raised.  It is something that has to be considered.  It's not only the economical aspect.  It's also the know how and we're trying to pile a request for them.  It is not by itself.  All has to be considered.

>> The recommendation   

>> I consider this one.

>> Thank you very much for that.  It's not the choice of words, but it must be (Audio is fading in and out)

>> It's definitely a shared responsibility.  Even language communities.  We are running to different experiences with trademarks that even should be useful to new ITGLDs.

>> Thank you very much.  (Audio is fading in and out)

>> Absolutely.  And thank you.  I will speak on this.  And we will catch up with an off centre.  (Audio is fading in and out) at least for what we are doing, you will answer or to sustain in the other.  It is from our end user and home registry communities.  It is our efforts to insure what they have now and in the future.  I would just like to give the audience a quick overview of what unit you are doing for supporting.  (Audio is fading in and out) so far we have registered more than 20 of the few domains.  We have seen over the past two or three years many companies, big companies mentioned to the new domain.  We have virtualizations and we have distributed office schema as we are offices in Italy and Sweden.  We do support them, which means that we provide the regular support for the customers and users resources.  It means that we are a network of the    they have response to e mails, phone calls, any kind of communication to us to officially communicate with the language.  It is fully available in European languages.  We do need things that are fully there and we support all the official languages.  That is also after    after the inputs, we received from an advisory board and we come down to the lateral part.  We launch the main names.  That gives us the opportunity for the residence to register their domain name in their Native language as they support all the characters and throw out the Europe official union languages and even more thans characters of the European union official language.  We have 5,000 international domain names.

Now the next step for us is to go forward.  There is a string of characters as this is an opportunity that my foot is put forward in the recent time.  That's why we are working and incorporating and we'll make sure that European internet users and European registrar have the possible possibility and correspond to the language.  I will underline an important aspect which is the economy aspect of the communication of the marketing.  To the best of my memory, they have 24 translations and above discussions they needed to support and responded.  We do believe that it's worthwhile to have marketing with the input as much as possible.  And I'm saying that because whatever it is with that community, which is one of the European communities, sometimes they don't speak English.  We see the value of having somebody speaking in their own language and make sure they are fully informed in the process.  They have procedures and that they continue to provide the average value which they will follow along.  We look forward to even supporting more of the multi lingual much faster than IBM top level.  Thank you.

>> Thank you very much for this optimistic presentation.  It is optimistic for different scripts and it's optimistic because it's just a reality.  Thinking the reality in Europe will take the reality of our big number of languages.  I want to welcome here that we often speak in one language or two or three, not 23.  But we are supporting the multi linguals.  It's a question of democracy.  You don't support the multi linguals and you just forget a part of society.  This is a question of integration and equality in Europe.  If you don't do it with our continued approach.  It's very involved and the cost is very high.
of course.  It's a plus of the business motto the consideration.  The commission was very practical in this possibility to document, of course.  But international level to include in the IGF this new CCIDs, the question and the ITM.

>> Thank you.  Um, what I noticed is I look that everybody agrees with everything, which is a wonderful thing.  He's shaking his hand.  For the union, one of the core principals of the union is, of course, England.  It is at the heart of everything.  Our daily lives and that is lived multi lingualism.  It is not getting it down to a couple languages all there, all use.  So it has been for us very important to get also with this new kid on the block after you very quickly enter this stream.  It is    (Audio is fading in and out) I think already you have been able without any problems to interviews all the script of the union on the left side was not    was quite a success.  I think for yours, this was done very quickly.  The next step is, of course, important that also the right side below that is less scripts that we have to deal with.  Now, um, there's a lot of security.  I think that is stability that the consumer shouldn't be subject to fraud.  We see eye to eye with that and most of the time we share things above this kind.  This is very close to my heart.  It's a question then how to implement this.  Sometimes there is really a difficulty in the fine print what is confusing and that is very off.  There are many people that see different things.  All of us on the outside.  It's not as clear cut as it sounds in you come to the nitty gritty to the fine print.  So, once we agree on the principal, I can fully share what they said and I congratulate you with any work you have done in Egypt, but also in the context regarding IBM.  He said    she puts out a list of things that have to be regarded and that is, um, something very important when you use the word ledge it mate    legitimate.  I didn't know if it was at a consensual level or the author was a legitimate author of that.  I think we all agree that this is the right way forward and I think it's great that    with a little bit of things that have been kicked off we have to see that also where they are problems, what is confusing or not.  We see overriding interest it was to read.  Thanks.

>> Thank you very much.  (Audio is fading in and out) I think we have special ability.  Please, do you have a microphone?  We'll answer very quickly. 

>> MALE SPEAKER:  You asked a question about a legitimacy in ICANN for country code that allocation endorsed (Audio is fading in and out).

>> MALE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I'm    I'm director of an organisation a university in Ireland.  One thing we will contact for 13 years or so.  I think things are very important to have and IGF official contents.  There is one building block product.  I look at organisations of how this is being done, it's being done in a way that there is a business element and a political element.  The commission has been done by the citizens to contact in their language.  Businesses can sell to customers if they provide their products and their services, their concepts and their language to the customers.  By doing that and by doing it that way, we build accountability.  We look at Microsoft and it is probably one of the biggest providers in the world.  They cover the customers.  But design of business case and the business case and organisations is always a phase.  They return on their investment.  By doing that, what happens is that you in fact exude 5, 6 billion people in the world.  By doing that, you call us or we call us thousands of people every day.  There is information for all.  They have journals saying that there are tens of thousands of people dieing not because of medicine, but because they don't have access to information that will prevent diseases.  It's not just the    it's not just the half where you need consistency, but human rights information and access to knowledge.  There is much, much more that needs to be done that we think of providing.  We have new business models.  Thinking about mutual translation and we have to think about new [INAUDIBLE] providing technologies to support the non profit civil society and translation organisations.  There will be a coalition that we'll have tomorrow at 11:30.  If you're interested in learning more or discussing that with us, you're very welcome.  I just want to you base that one.

>> Thank you.  And just precise that on content and languages difficulty with translation.  Just a thought, please. 

>> MALE SPEAKER:  We have some experience because, you know, the idea I have seen clearly is we can define the research in Taiwan and China and also in Japan.  I would like to mention that I think people fully agree and accept it.  But I think we need to go to where we are.  I heard we were talking about we are going to have marketing language for European commission, but be careful.  The idea is they don't have implementation.  Right now you can do it in the domain.  You cannot send an e mail because based    I think you must remember we want to get the access of the domain as we did in the ASCII.  We still have a lot of technical research we have to go on.  It goes through the IT process commission.  I will leave for the ability and also there's several reasons and the second thing is I don't know how many of you are actually running the marketing domain in the operation.  At least in the Taiwan and China we did.  At least for five years.  I would like to show you some of the realities.  First of all, in this stage, we actually can do it in the domain.  But we are in the stage that we do.  We really are using those IBM Dominions every day.  We are not in this stage yet.  I think we need to realise what I mean by that is in the cost, in the past five years, you look at that and they resort to the idea and asking.  The number is really a big difference.  We are really going to eventually the IBM Dominican is the same functionality as an ASCII, but I think we still need a lot of technical research to be done.  So, I fully support in marketing.  But I just like to mention in reality, don't forget about it.  Don't give your registrar.  I will do every task and there's a little bit difference.

>> Thank you very much for your recognition.  Yes?

>> Thank you.  I just wanted to share my experience from India as well.  In    India is a country first of all as multiple languages and multiple scripts.  In fact, right now there's applications for only seven scripts and that doesn't cover all.  The country right now publishes six languages.  So it's    in some ways, look at it and it's not much different (Audio is fading in and out) the one thing that I find interesting that's going on that's different now than say even three or five years ago is that in India, ah, folks are accessing the internet.  They're accessing the internet using the [INAUDIBLE].  They're accessing the internet using, you know, handheld devices and, ah, one of the where I have is to make sure that the    those who are beginning software applications and those with licenses have taken into consideration the localization, but also the ability to have the part of the domain, which is really a gate way to access to the internet to be able to allow that to also be internationalized.  I was concerned in the ASCII key pad it has dot com in ASCII, but if you look at it in other happens, you don't necessarily see the goods and you worry about how it's going to work.  So I think that's a development.  It's not just access to the internet using a wire device more and more especially in the development across the room.  Access with the internet is through.  Sometimes it's connected.

>> Thank you very much.  Yes?

>> I'm from India.

>> can you speak louder?

>> (Audio is fading in and out) we have 42 languages and there are a lot of scripts there.  I just want you to understand that they handle that case with one language and multiple scripts.  And multiple scripts and one.  That is all.

>> Thank you for your question.  Please.

>> Thank you.  I would like to ask questions.  One is that there is a debate for the ICCPOEs would organise.  Whether you ask it is a debate, but whether you agree with the BCIOEs, the split internet.  (Audio is fading in and out) and then the second question is:  Do you know the stage of development for IBM e mail?

>> Thank you.  Are the    another, um, the audience.  Yes, please.

>> Thank you.  We have the organisation and we are forwarding the link and the users for the internet.  First we say that it is quick naturally.  In the way they would add up the names and apart from this, the way it's going on in the world today, they're objecting to things.  They are refusing    here they're using things with Brazil.  This is perfectly in the position.  I wonder what reaction of the user community in this case.  The other thing is we probably have confusion in general.  It has been known for years and to send that scripts may have samaritans that don't normally use the same technical captures.  They have identical captures and that can also be done by the user variations in the topography.  This is very important.  And the way IBM has been designing have been ignoring things.  That language has been excluded from IBM stands.  They measure and measure mistake.  They decided there is no solution in the end for IBM.  If we keep it that way.  Thank you.

>> Thank you for your introduction.  Other reaction?  Yes, please.

>> Yes.  I'm from Bulgaria.  I would be discussing things break Bulgaria and Brazilian.  I expressed my opinion about that a couple months ago; however, I do have a question.  Whether they're working with the opening cell is not working with the browser.  You have to have a browser in order to use T. do you work with the browser vendors in order to protect for the similarities in the case and there are others.  There are similarities and they're also dangerous.  Do you do anything else other than look in the streets to protect the user?

>> Thank you very much.  Time is running.  I think that's all these different questions are pretty popular to say.  So I will ask that you react to the different questions and give temporary confusion for the next panel.  So perhaps we begin with a question.  You are the star because you have many case, you know.  But after that, it is up to you.  They can express more the way that the mission can previously propose solutions for the script.  And cooperation how it can be very positive and for you very patient of the support to succeed in the ridge star action.

>> I don't know about the star, but it's the spotlight.  Perhaps the same thing.  Let me address the questions one on one.  To the easy one, status on e mail.  It is an RFC in the ITF.  It is standing now for building express fully defined e mail address completely in a Lotus script.  In fact, there are several implementations that are already done and accessible.  There was another question about    I thought it was really interesting about this IDLDs potentially causing a split organisation on the internet.  I was actually a little puzzled with that mostly because first of all before IGS, people have been using internet in their noble languages as been available in their languages.  That has been part of the organisation.  The way all the ideas really do is provide yet more accessibility to the population of the world to have access to various content and information available on the internet in their own languages.  So it's done in a way that's completely compatible with all the existing systems.  So you still have the IBM top of the domain route.  It is still accessible everywhere in the world and e mails and all other things continue to work.  So that end to end principal really isn't reached.  So I don't see the organisation issue be.  The of the thing that came to them about language stats and IBM standards, perhaps you're right.  I would encourage you to come to the ATF, which is really where those discussions happen.  The ITF is where the standard discussions occur.  And really they look at what's established features and protocols and working and implementing.  And finally to the question about, you know, what ICAST is doing in working with browser vendors and other application providers.  There is a balance here.  ICAST certainly has communication and order providers.  One thing I can ask you is that the whether is not internet and so although browser vendors are very important set of application dividers, you also had to think about as someone said Microsoft or Adobe or all these other application says that integrate DNS.  The way the world is going, almost all application on a computing device is starting to expect DNS.  I think if you look at it from first principals, probably the safest best role is to focus on the core.  The script is a platform.  Is that script valid in a    there are sets.  All the way with that, they run through the linguistic analysis to make sure that the confusion is aloof.
You go straight forward and a predictable processor.  I think that probably is the safest course for IBM to conform to.  It doesn't make as many subjective positions on a case by case.

>> It was Europe.  How to legislate?

>> Thank you.  You have the convention and the possible organisation and wanting to be more neutral.  The    this point has been indeed, discussed as concern, but it started about what really was very off and discussed was that it might be used, but those who want to have a prioritization and then two to make this presentation happen.  (Audio is fading in and out) that was also one of the discussions that were done by ICANN.  Well, we might go it along.  That was basically the kind of (Audio is fading in and out) we have then process.  I think I have to come back to what is now said.  I think spell she spelled out in more detail about no other countries, but it is purely over arching.  Again, I am finding out that I should not use Centurion details to regulate inward good will into the domain square that is no and it's a legitimate ride of language in the country to design the rules.  (Audio is fading in and out) we have a global responsibility.  So yeah.  I think it's again that has to be a clear board (Audio is fading in and out) they have some experts and whatever and we expect the students to take this with the design.  Then I find part of it interestingly remarkable standard and language.  We added the workshop which I organised yesterday.  It wasn't (Audio is fading in and out) there is no discussion between the different groups between the business and the whatever.  You put that and technically it's correct.  You have an issue where technical implementation might have a political cover.  That's why you have the intervention.

>> Thank you.  If you want to take your computer net out, (Audio is fading in and out).

>> MALE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I have two parts.  First one is moving forward with technical things.  But it's a level of starting there to allow users to work and use IGF.  (Audio is fading in and out) that is really, really important.  The second aspect in detail (Audio is fading in and out) they have language that is addressed democracy.  They go through the languages they contribute to have more people involved in any kind of, ah, politics.  So I do believe that IBM and TR is representative and is a small contribution.  It is only a matter of time and it is also a matter for us to prove in the sense that at the end, we are going to implement it and be successful with that intense.  We are doing that.  So that is my    those are my thoughts.

>> Pretty much.  Last confusion.  Thank you.

>> FEMALE SPEAKER:  Hello.  Thank you.  Very quickly on thoughts also.  What they mentioned about the organisation of internet.  I really feel that this is further outreach to more people and to get the next ones, we have to understand their needs and try to satisfy their needs which might be different.  If we don't do this, we might run into another thing of fragmentation.  We were talking about    some people are online and others are left behind.  With all this progress, it is widening which was mentioned even yesterday during the opening.  One more thing.  On the languages and the scripts, I feel there's a great responsibility on the language communities to actively participate or even proactively participate and make sure that they are the most capable to highlight the problems, the things that are    that needs to be resolved and I think from a technical point of view, it's there to view from the script.  But to have it released is find the language.  The language communities need to participate more.

>> MALE SPEAKER:  Thank you very much.  Time to have the second part of our workshop.  Thank you to everyone and different panelists to come and to have accepted to participate for this important work.  Thank you for your contribution.  The process of this information (Audio is fading in and out) it's a question of non profit organisations.  Public interest is not something which (Audio is fading in and out) we have an international democracy.  The active of IGF is also to show and emphasize the capacity.  The citizen   

>> Good morning.  (Audio is fading in and out) we have a very interesting exchange.  During the first hour of this session, ah, the use of IBM's    (Audio is fading in and out) they are    business of different languages is reality and it's a long time.  This proportion of this is the scale.  Yesterday during the opening remarks, I mentioned the numbers.  90% of all web pages are really in 12 languages.  English represents 72% of all content.  It is obvious for the story of business that English language is dominating.  We know that for each nation, language is part of their identity.  They have professional identities.  They're starting to develop intimate as a place where all languages (Audio is fading in and out).  They will be asking the perspective on questions related to some languages.  I will say that, um, use of different languages cost a lot.  It represents I think part of the annual things.  (Audio is fading in and out) certainly they need to pay for use of different languages and translation.  We see that you're just with companies addressing issues in different languages are not very key to develop their services in small languages.  At the same time, they came out and got returned to their investment.  At the same time, they need to do so and support 40 languages.  But, of course, we see a difference.  That's the biggest service provider.  (Audio is fading in and out) we have representative from Tanzania.  We have    sorry.  Let me start in the order I presented.  The question is:  (Audio is fading in and out) what is your perspective on the use of languages in the business [INAUDIBLE] in Facebook?  What is your policy and your thinking behind it?

>> Thank you.

>> MALE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  The simple answer is that multi lingualism is essential.  Facebook connects friends and families with each other.  It's demographic profile is actually broad than the past people think.  Only 13% of our users, that's 1 3 under the age of 18.  So the vast majority is 18 plus.  And they are geography spread to 500 million.  They are in the U.S. and the rest are pretty much every country around the globe.  After starting a service, it was English language only.  It very quickly became apparent that if you wanted to get the widespread take out, it would tremendously used by everyone.  That multi lingual would be certainly.  There are two keys to do that.  The first is a very tachy one.  The Facebook was developed using very modern technology where every item of text that you see on the site is stored as a failed database.  So the ability to ask and show version 1 and version 2 or version 70 rather than version 1.  It was actually quite straight forward.  I think it is a lot of Legacy work.  So it was that much harder because things have to be done in a more manual fashion.  Again, we ask    we found that we have a very positive community of users and who wants to translate site so that we can quickly be on the call of languages that we support professionally.  We have the community that is motivated and able to translate.  The other is that because we know where people live because the way they're registered, we target and communicate with translators.  We see that you're living in the United Kingdom, but would you like to help us    we assume you speak English and Spanish.  The early days of translation is would you help us to help people in Spain and we will do the site in English.  We have an architecture and a huge community support for that effort.  The result is that we're now in over 70 languages.  We started doing translations for the site material and enter four or five languages.  I think it's about up to 20.  We produce a new safety central privacy sector.  We will instantly expand to three community languages to this 70 plus.  It does include Latin.  So anyone who is familiar with Latin is living language, but we're interested in third languages as well.  There is all sorts of fun and we have a lot of users that do use pirate English, upside down English.  There's a variance.  We have that playfulness into different languages.  Let's change it back.  We have some people working on that.  We have controls to get back to the original language.  You're fine.  It's a playfulness of multi lingualism and the site that says the user probably wants to use it is part of the philosophy.  One of the messages is where a web service is trying to reach an audience and where the technology allows them to do it in the most fortunate way possible.  I think multi lingualism will flourish and fly.  I think that's in those areas where that's not the case and where the business goes.  They look for people who are ambitious about spreading the service more broadly.  I think there's a lot of visual there nationally.  Just to say the tools themselves which both again google have to give more credit than we have.  We have tried to make available as plug ins and we would like to share the benefits that you want to run multi lingual sites.  You can use community translation site as a plug in to your Web Site to get your Brazilian community to help translate in Brazilian Portuguese.  It is increasingly the tools by googles and offering tools that are small services also to benefit for these great technology translations.

>> Thank you.  Thank you.  How many certain representatives work and how many languages you can handle in term.

>> So our support services were expanding.  I think wrapped around 20 on the support service.  So that's people in Facebook supports users and queries with those languages.  The languages beyond that, um, translation to user last for those, but we're up to about 20 and we can support internally within the Facebook community.  We have another instance where we had a number of Iranian staff.  They turned that on quickly.  So there's a lot more potential and it still translates.

>> Actual, the first domain which was specifically dedicated to support us because of our culture and because of our language.  What other experience would you like to share with the community who are marking the process and working.  Then is with different languages that come through establishing their own domain and experiences.

>> Yeah.  Try to be brief.  Not to worry with the story of    there are many aspects.  I think cat helped to understand is this a new wave of people that are trying to get new domain name for the communities online and if they're going to be successful or not and our story shows a case that has been so far successful.  It's been successful.  First of all, um, I'd like to point out that we are now a non profit organisation that sprang from this.  That is important.  We've been talking about carry August flag representing language at a community.  And there might be many handicaps in having this just in the same organisation, but ours was not just related to it.  There was one of these words and they were real.  Some of you know it very well.  But there were a lot of them and they also engaged many, many, many organisations first and individuals to give support and to collaborate.  That was part of the success, at least from the beginning.  There were a lot of organisations in society.  There were a lot of banks for many, many industrial sectors that explicitly gave their support.  And there were a lot of names and some of them also still help us in our day to day work.  The success in the very beginning that was a domain name and it represents to the community and it serves and can only leave that past glory, so to speak.  The domain name is successful and represents' community that's alive.  If it's not alive, it will not survive.  It cannot artificially maintain a language by subsidizing it or creating kind of a mutual wall on the internet increase.  It has some kind of life outside of the line of work.  It doesn't happen like this.  Still can run it by 8 to 10 people in many phases.  It is official in our community.  So, ah, it is not    this is a topic of how do you find the English language by use.  The representation has had, has driven people to the language.  Well, maybe a domain name can help to identify the things people were using.  They also help to retreat that.  And that is    that is why we believe that domain name was important.  It has also been successful in terms of use.  We have not    we are not a huge space.  We have been around.  In four years, it's not great, great success and we have not overcome over the internet, but, ah, it's not bad for a latecomer.  It was because we had to insure the financial team for the domain name.  And they also had a strong enforcement.  In our country, it is important that we find the speak community online.  And the domain name must have some    some requirements to the policy that make it not open to the value.  Let me clarify that.  It is a requirement in its use.  You may use the languages as you want inside.  There has to be some degree of communication.  And we, ah, believe that this requirement gives sense to the whole domain name.  We have a copycat of other generic successful domain names.  Should we want to be that, we will not be representing sensibility that created the whole organisation.  So, given those three factors, we believe that the numbers we very not bad.  We are also one of the main with more density of things per page.  That's a bit tricky as well.  For not being so huge, there might be a distortion there with the expansive use that the administrations are doing a domain name.  They put everything on Word.  So you may think that those early    they distortion a little bit.  But the important thing is that it's not only them.  It's everybody that has the domain name that is using it.  We have    we were rated at 99.5%, which is not bad.  And we are also    France is growing.  We are growing at a slow pace.  Our numbers never go down and net growth is always increasing.  So those factors make us believe that we are so far successful.  And we're also financially viable.  This is also very important because you cannot live unsubsidized.  We believe that's not the way to work.  You are a representative with the community.  If you are    how do you prove that you are believing on a real meet.  That is nothing.  That is just wanting and that is contents.  The things that matter, of course    I believe it leaves a name and represents a community.  Otherwise, it is also important.  They did not know what it meant or what it was.  Once we decided to use the occasional one to pay a visit to them and talk about that, they just, ah, saw it as a no brainer.  Believe me.  We spent trying to go in google.cat.  And it was not possible because it wasn't seen as something necessarily.  They were using cat and they saw that it was (Audio is fading in and out)

>> The languages which are spoken in your opinion and which are not even official languages in your opinion I can speak the languages.  There's no one in this region of the world.  So, ah, whether they should    these languages    (Audio is fading in and out) there's a decision which one should be    you will find a place.  (Audio is fading in and out)

>> As you know, I come from Barcelona.  In six years, I remember all the culture elevation clarity and this has been one of the issues that they have every day.  I would like to say that it's not the occasional that took it up here.  I didn't know.  It is not    they have what she said.  Excuse me.  I don't have your name and also my colleague is that parliamentarians can help, but the most important is the intention, the strength of the people.  Well, I've been fighting for six years than    it can be used during the debates and not in every comedy, but with interest of being here.  Whether it is in a day with representative of these communities that has responsibility for the occasion.  We have had many speaking during meetings.  It is impossible.  It is not impossible for Babylon.  This is a decision that has to take on the level of vice president of the parliament.  Just one says no.  Last time we put these on the wall, vice president.  They were two vice presidents that say no and    but it was not possible.  I know what I explain to you which vice president or which is going down.  Then I've been thinking a lot about the use of damages.  I know that I think in United Nations they work hard.  On the 27th, I would have to collect three official letters, which is not merely two.  In fact, we don't use 23.  What do we use in this?  Many times I don't have the translation into Spanish.  I rarely think it's merely impossible now to use the same system for the user of languages that we had and that we start when we were starting.  I think it's our decision, our network doesn't work anymore.  What haps after that?  With this system, any (Audio is fading in and out) things happen so bizarre.  It is a language that is spoken in an area of 12 million people in an area that we are in Babylonia 7 million people and we can be sure it is spoken between 7 and 8 million.  This is not an official network.  You never enter the repair department.  And then you have some other languages.  The only reason that they belong to a state, they have to call other thousand people.  I think we have some problems.  What happened is my    what do I think?  I think we have change.  We can open the box with this work.  Every time you try to change something, someone is    this is to open.  I think we have to open this box.  And whatever box it is, at the same time they are treating, he asked the possibility that to take decisions taking into that, the number of stakes and the number of those things, I propose that the decision of the use of the language can have the number of stakes and the number of people, speaking people.  I think that should approach this more.  And I think we really should make differences between work languages and use of    even uses of things.  Proudly, we have to decide five or six or four.  There is a reality team.  I think we can say, no.  The small languages are spoken by four or five people.  They want to be official.  This language is as spoken as English in a sense, but we cannot work.  I would say we have to decide taking into account the number of the speaking people which are these working languages?  And then in order of these speaking people of each languages, there is different uses.  For example, some can be used during the debates.  For example, some others want to hear because there is a debate for the last day we have for the first time the debate of the state of the union.  What possibly can you use all the languages.  We have to support the parliament of all languages, but this is one thing and the other thing is to use inside.

>> MALE SPEAKER:  Very broad.
I see the internet as a very good tool to let us get small languages and they're all live in the entity    it is a tremendous perspective.  Quick count.  There are many languages arriving English, French and Portuguese.  Thousands of small languages.  Mostly written in Latin.  Mostly written    not all, but mostly.  The languages without    (Audio is fading in and out) how you see the focus of those people will see those small languages, plus the situation as a first.  That's just to Kenya.

>> Working with the registry, I am representing Tanzania.  For the guests of Tanzania, we have the English language.  But in secondary schools, it's English, but also Swahili is part of the lesson.  So the challenges with English and Swahili is that the government is leading and presenting the content online using Swahili, but to the private sector, it is getting behind.  The private sector is reaching across with the department in terms of businesses.  So this is every sector that's behind and they feel the private sector in terms of business.  But most of the context is presented in English.  But above all, I agree about the translation issue and translation costs.  But it is not just the only challenge.  You have also the challenge in terms of the message.  We take the Swahili waiting for the domain.  If you represent a level, you want to be able to understand.  You mix it with English and at least it will give you a minute.  You choose a domain name in Swahili, and it will be totally confused.  It's the issue be of English and have it understand.  Yes.  Presenting the content online using the language is very beneficial.  You deliver the message.  By doing so, you are reaching the local communities.  If you use one language, you give a demarcation.  Also, ah presenting the content represents a liability because did is presented fully to deliver to the majority of the citizens.  As I said, this is a challenge for the kids of Tanzania because if you represent things in English, they translate without getting the real message.  You have content in the lingo.  Fourth phase is productivity.  As I said in business industry, if we have delivered and they have a message, if we presented in Swahili, most of the message will be delivered and therefore, you can deliver it correctly.

>> Thank you.  (Audio is fading in and out) and Joseph, perspective from Kenya.

>> Thank you.  It has been interesting.  (Audio is fading in and out) perhaps it is as an aspect (Audio is fading in and out)    perhaps one of the conditions that is scheduled and perhaps (Audio is fading in and out) there were some issues that are into and you know on the internet. many, many languages, never something like that can create for instances.  It has some statistics.  It's got, um, (Audio is fading in and out) the results were there last year.  64% of households and access.  63% of households and access or by thought.  (Audio is fading in and out) (Audio is fading in and out) perhaps there are people who would go across and put them on the internet.  Perhaps there's a possibility for the future to see whether there is an aspect that is available.  So somebody says that 2007 they have specials.  The internet or (Audio is fading in and out) it would have to be audio for them to have to interrupt that in order to do that.  That is perhaps the next one here.  Perhaps they will get into that.  We should be looking at a question of perhaps not so much translation.  The original content is really in the language that they understood.  So the translation is fast.  (Audio is fading in and out) you are developing strategies on digital content.  Perhaps it's a circulation of important things to see east internet and seeing in the languages.  Submitting in the languages and perhaps some other issues with copyright communities and certain aspects of electrical copyrights or certain aspects of the culture and we are looking also at a question of assistance through what is upgraded.  We're looking at that is available through internet.  There are resources and those that want to engage the internet.  (Audio is fading in and out) there is a challenge and when we're looking at it, we just have the BOMBASA.  We hope in the short run it's going to be linked.  You link what you call something (Audio is fading in and out) we're not looking (Audio is fading in and out) there was also a question of those artists and a possibility that anyone would be able to [INAUDIBLE] in their own languages.  Perhaps it is opportunity used and it follows information and it is part of that.  This is something that I seem to have locked a while.  (Audio is fading in and out) back to Joseph.

>> Joseph:  Make sure there is a national capacity to produce content in multiple languages and for developing countries for those communities in the languages.  That also provides for safeguard in that division of small language.  Now I'm turning to the audience.  Is there anybody who would like to join?  One is in the back.  One is there.  Please come to the microphone and introduce yourself.  In the beginning, (Audio is fading in and out) if you have any questions, and then we will have closing remarks.

>> I am the working with the research centre in Northern Ireland.  I asked some of the questions in this session.  So I won't keep you, but the civil society of your presentations and there is not really any question of how many people speak of that language, which becomes available.  It's never a question of speakers.  Irish is the official language.  There will is content to be localized by providers and there are a thousand speakers maybe.  Very few localized next to a million.  But it is not a question of number of speakers of the language.  It's a question of business case and users.  And when you really stick it down, you need to develop several business cases for languages that are available individual of that and we have developed to the technologies to support efforts of    of society to make a lot more, which is available.  It's not just a question of languages.  It's also a question of content.  There is a lot of content there that is just waiting there to be localized and translated.  It is made available    we have technology and the infrastructure and different kinds of business cases that's available for this kind of content and for others.  Am (Audio is fading in and out) I would like to know what your review is of those places.

>> Thank you.  Am.

>> (Audio is fading in and out).

>> FEMALE SPEAKER:  When I see, when we talk about listening, I think there are a few communications.  I think you want to get information.  Information of excess people to get information on one side.  On the other side is communication, cooperation.  I think it's very important that you are teaching the language, but it is important to know what you're teaching.  You come from an academic and a lot of the weeks search and a lot of information is done in a research language that wasn't possible.  When you're talking about special contents, it is much more important than having all different languages that you're talking about the same issue.  You're thinking about all the errors and you see a different area of loose content.  (Audio is fading in and out) it is important that everybody knows that you accept the talk for the same issue.  I have to face some of my introduction.  We have the names in German.  There was an internet, but it would be started.  (Audio is fading in and out) you would have that with the translators.  I don't know the technical expression of the similar case.  I think it's very important that you cover    that you use as much information as possible for the other side.  It's unique and modernization is a unique language.

>> This is Derrick Fisher.  We have two scripts that are used on the web and how they are used.  (Audio is fading in and out)

>> Then is Ron.  There are no scientific studies (Audio is fading in and out) it uses images and they're completely agreeable.  So you can consider them to be accessible in that local language even though there is not a computer representation due to type it in to    there are certainly plenty of languages that are not making it on the internet and therefore, they're at risk of dieing online in a short while.  Thanks.

>> Know you cannot have the scripts representing 400 languages.

>> (Audio is fading in and out) very quickly    just quickly (Audio is fading in and out) they have the identity protection and we have to have them where they try to, um, categorize the different languages by the use.  It might be easier than what was mentioned.  It was impossible to have everything translate completely in every language.  Thank you.

>> Thank you.

>> My command about the question was right and they Rob the language.  It seems if we allow ourselves to consider, there is one language.  We use the language of research fields of the world, which is English, of course.  We are going to risk to make at risk and also make the major languages because all the languages are going to become less rich and they're going to lose functionality.  This is where they receive the debate where we should think about and related to internet question.  I think that, um, when we see the internet, it is more multi lingual, but, um, the general idea that is promoted by that is that internet is the English speaking language.  For this reason in many countries, there is the    since it is considered to be English speaking, governments are going (Audio is fading in and out) (no sound) all the teachers would have to be teaching Italy have to have the English language.  It is a very serious problem.  And sometimes it's passed through the media that internet and English is the language of internet.  Thank you.

>> Okay.  Thank you for comments.  We have reached almost the end of the session.  Now I would like to ask the panelists who would like to make the final divisions or comments on the remarks we heard here.

>> Yeah.  There was an issue of    of the language by speaker among the content.  It should take the consideration of business case.  For the guests, the fortunately languages is Swahili and Swahili is spoken all over Tanzania.  I find the guests are TV broadcasting.  There is a level of issue that you're broadcasting to Swahili or English.  People don't find a certain local language that are spoken in certain area only.  So, if you talk, you will be    it will finally be separating and they will not get the message.  It is insisting you use Swahili or English.

>> Thank you.

>> Okay.  I have to make a final remark.  What you say regarding two languages and translations and the society.  We are creating sales society and used by sales society.  So, ah, it shows something.  It shows that if there's needs, ah, there will be something that will promote that need.  We are also seeing that many others are following enough of profit that tries to assemble as many people as possible from their own societies.  The Welsh, the Scottish, the Britains.  Some of them are going ahead because really have the need.  They also have done this by many people that just wanted to do that for the community.  We're supposed to be speaking of the language.  And they didn't have any kind of support at home and it shows something.  And that's in our case and our society.  We also have very strong support from the beginning and still we have that problem from the administration and also you help to create content.  There are several I    they create something with growers and other things.

>> Internet offers are parallelled to fabricate it and then target participations.  So it is actually particularly for the language communities.  It is massive.  They are around distribution for other reasons.  That intent would want to come over and they have a domain choice just to use all the chosen language used to the select the service.  They are understanding where the community is and where it never hand before.  They are asking them to express for the piece of content.  They have potential and it's probably more than you realize by the business and you realize because civil society realizes using those tools makes a request.  Business responds.  Then you have a simple language discussion and people can speak English.  You can choose to target the content.  You can translate some piece of content and you see things, et cetera.  You have conversations in the English language communities.  They compress the languages and expose people to each other's languages.  They have some of the content and there is relevance to the users.  (Audio is fading in and out) they have separate conversations.

>> FEMALE SPEAKER:  I would say that we are trying to manage between technical issues translation with other languages, with the cultural diversity, with internet as a tool for others.  I think all of the issues we very announced here.  There is a report center and more of the languages will be a necessity to solve.  I think that's very interesting.  They allow us to communicate, yes.  That's very important.  Some retain issues or also the diversity.  It's the    we must go to find solutions and all of these things that you mentioned here.  I think we'll know this for the civil society.  I think they're following too.  We are talking to civil society.  We are a civil society and    in the websphere auto communication, we are all talking with civil society.  I think that is very    I will tell you that all and we have been talking.  We have not yet and it is a communication for the information.

>> Thank you.  (static) continue is one language to another and they are looking toward internet enhancement.  They kept thinking let's start developing and there is communication.  They feel   

>> So thank you.  That trips us to the closure of this workshop.  I would like to thank, ah, all the panelists.  In concluding, make your own conclusions, but one thing from me is that a number of cases, the business model is essential to promote use of different languages in the internet.  But this theory has a number of limitations.  The public policy also plays an important role particular in the cases where there is not sufficient return to investment for business.  There a government should step in to set up the right policies to make sure that languages are present.  That is the tool of the future which will at one point be used by virtually everybody.  And therefore, languages and important governments can play some role and the businesses is certainly civil society.  The academic community as well.  Thank you very much indeed.  So I hope you all enjoy the rest of the IGF discussions.