A Better Internet with You(th)... Connecting the Dots

24 October 2013 - A Workshop on Multistakeholderism in Bali, Indonesia

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Full Session Transcript

The following is the output of the real-time captioning taken during the Eigth Meeting of the IGF, in Bali, Indonesia. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the session, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.


 

  

  

  

   >> And that's why we are here, in order to contribute our voices to the Internet improvement.  And we hope that we can promote the conclusions and have harmonious Internet environment.  And Himul, from the network program, is by the network program, because I'm a university student and we believe that actually we can have a more inclusion of younger youth, like -- who is secondary school students and that's why we are here.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Thank you.  (laughter) So I don't think you quite told me why I should be listening to you.  What is it that you've got that I don't already know?  Any ideas?

   >> We are the youth, and from the survey we just did right now, like who should be responsible for future development of the youth and the most voted answer was me.  So (laughter) so --

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: So?

   >> There you go.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Thank you.  That's a very good answer.  I really put you on the spot.  And on our other side we have Nicola Douglas and Nicola has been to the street three times now.  Tell us a little about yourself.  But also you've been here three times.  You should have had an influence.  Have you and if not why not?

   >> I certainly like to think so, but I don't know.  I don't know.  I haven't actually gone out there and investigated.  It would be nice to know if someone has tweeted something I've said and it's gone on to the influence of policy or something.  I've certainly been in a few workshops now that I have met people and talked about policy enough.  So why should you listen to me and who am I?  So -- that's mine, isn't it?

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: That's you --

   >> I'm 18 years old.  I'm here with childhood international and I'm part of their YGF program.  It's my third YGF.  And I think the real reason that you should listen to me as opposed to -- not as opposed to but as well as listening to Luis and Bastiaan is I'm like other young people, possibly, because not all other young people are as good as these guys are, and not all young people are as amazingly entrepreneurial as these are.  I would respectfully disagree with him when he says it's school that provides the major barrier.  For me and my perspective, and from what I definitely see of other young people, I think the two -- two, maybe three major barriers to this would be awareness and knowledge because you certainly have a lot of specialized knowledge for this that I definitely don't have and would love to get.  Maybe I talk to you later about that.  Because code is something I don't understand and would like to. 

   And something else, maybe a lack of confidence, a lack of willingness to speak about these issues, because others have certain social stigma and surrounding some of these issues.  The second highest survey, companies, Web developers and geeks.  There's a stigma from my perspective definitely from sort of where I live and the school I go to.  There's a stigma attached to the word "geek" and I think it's traveled down through history.  You can see the entomology of it back to Shakespearean times and beyond.

   And I think the other thing is the problem with young people -- or not the problem, but something that maybe just is part of the culture we live in. 

   The other problem I think is motivation, because you guys are really motivated to do what you do.  You have a personal cause and you're going in there to see something, you see that it benefits you.  Young people are constantly asking -- we're constantly asking ourselves, what can I get out of this?  What's in it for me?  And as a role that's something we do.  I personally ask myself, yeah, what's in it for me, what can I get out of this?  The reason I'm here is because I'm interested in these things.  I think I have something to say, and the reason that sort of other young people might not be -- might not be so interested is because they don't really see how it pertains to them and I think that's something we should be educating because it definitely does.  I hope you listen to me.  I hope you give me enough reason.  Thanks.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Very interesting.  I'm going to ask you to give me now just one wish, and as we saw that actually me and an industry seem to be the most important, it has had to address an wish to me, so I would say you formulate it to companies, industries and geeks.  Think about it why we go to our remote moderation and ask if we've got any input because we have young people from the United States, we have young people from Brazil -- no, okay, no news from our remote participants.  I hope they're listening.  Let's hear your wish, just one wish, if you could have any wish, what would it be?  We'll let you each have one.

   >> So I guess I'm starting off?  It's kind of funny, though, my wish.  It's pretty dorky.  One of my five wishes was to have a more precise translation Web site.  Coming from Hong Kong -- I am coming from Hong Kong but I am not Chinese, and we do learn Chinese.  It's a mandatory subject at school.  Whenever the teacher gives yours homework, especially if I was translation assignment I can find it on Web sites.  But I get in trouble because Web sites translate it into something completely different, more poetic or something like that.  The teacher obviously knows it's not my work because in class, you know, I -- so, yeah --

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Translation --

   >> More precise, yeah, so I have yet to stumble upon one.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Maybe we should be looking at Google translate and see if they can update the quality.  Make it less poetic.  (laughter  Yes, your wish.

   >> My wish is very simple.  I just want there to be no Internet scam -- it's because I receive so many phishing email from different sick countries that tells me I win the prize.  It's so unfortunate I never win a prize before and it's because of this kind of phishing emails are annoying but at the same time they will try to get my personal information, which is my real live in reality and it's my wish.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Your wish?

   >> Well, I think there are all talented young people, amazing Web designers, people with real bad ideas but the problem I see when I speak to those people, I can design awesome Web sites but I don't know how to make them work.  My wish is better collaboration among young people and that they work together, because I think none of them is successful or great enough to make really awesome things on his own but all together they can make a really big change and I think that's very important.  That's my wish.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: A good one.  Yes.  Luis?

   >> LUIS IVAN CUENDE: So my wish is to keep the Web open and with standards.  We are moving to this area of mobile devices and we're starting to use the content of the Web on the Internet for -- on Google from apple.  And I think we have to -- to stay using the Web, to use the standards and interact with everything with -- over the Internet.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Nicola, any wish?

   >> NICOLA DOUGLAS: Yes, I think so.  Mine would have to be the conscious interactions.  What I meant by that, it's something we discussed last year in our workshop, that we ran -- we wrote about freedom of expression and social media.  And young people often don't note line -- young and old people don't know the line between comments that you can make and the opinions that are right to express and the right way to express those opinions in the most constructive way, in the way that's best for construction, best for debate, without insulting other people and -- so you have conscious interactions.  The idea is that things are good to express and some things aren't. 

   And some of the comments you receive in trolling or abuse on line or in general.  It would be nice to see more education from everyone, ISPs, government and just educators, Civil Society, to educate people about that line and to give them informed decisions about how they -- how they express themselves.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Very interesting.  I'm just wondering if we have any comments from the floor, because, you know, this -- we really do want to be interactive.  We have some very wise people sitting around the table with super ideas.  Do we have any comments on the wishes that we've heard?  Would you like to add something?  Just speak up and give your name.  No?  Okay.  Well, opening up -- thank you, Klaus.

   >> It's just a small comment because I've been in the safe Internet program for two years or something like that, and I think definitely what you have said is saying that what the next generation of the program should be better Internet.  That is for sure.  Thank you.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Yeah, but we can't hear you.

   >> I have a question.  I'm curious along the teen -- among the teen panelists, Internet safety, does that resonate with you?  Is that a term that means anything to you or do we need to move on, kind of as a follow-up to that gentleman's question?

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Yes, Nicola.

   >> NICOLA DOUGLAS: I could take it if anyone else wants to give comments.  But I think for me I'm growing up a bit, so I'm 18.  And for me Internet safety is still important, yeah, I think so.  I think it's always important to be identifying with everyone, sort of like telling everyone, because the Internet is evolving, it's changing all the time, and there are new dangers arise. 

   So I think that yes, it's still important to have education.  On the other hand, I don't always -- you know, for me I think I've received enough education from school so sort of the education that I get from school is sort of -- it's done its duty and I think I'm well-prepared enough.  But I think it should continue, because I think it still has a role because young people -- their parents don't necessarily know.  There will come a point where parents will be able to teach their children the right way to do these things because obviously our parents know -- my parents didn't grow up with the Internet so they didn't teach me how to interact safely on-line, whereas I will be able to tell my children that.  I think right now yes, but maybe in the future not so much.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Okay.  Bastiian first, yes?

   >> BASTIAAN ZWANENBURG: I look at Internet safety but the only reason I care about it is because I have to manage financial emails, because I have 5,000 customers.  Before I didn't really care about it.  It was like I want to use my computer and do cool things with it.  But it's not the same thing you see or feel unless you're being hacked and I think lots of young people don't really care about it.  Otherwise people will start -- protecting inspires us -- why would they care about that?  It's not something they found interesting, I think.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: So we have a good reason here, and that is your 5,000 customers so it's more confidence, security.  Before we go to our next panelists, we actually have a comment here.  We have two comments from the public.  Yes?

   >> Hi.  I'm Jeremy button from the metal foundation.  I'd like to throw this in.  My contention has been -- digital natives and immigrants which is a cliche thrown around these days which is taken away from the original meaning.  My contention has been that it is about engagement, and so the youth panelists were talking about -- they were talking about the -- from school in terms of cyber safety and being responsible on-line, that kind of thing.  But will that digital divide continue, will it be perpetuated because you've still got the same proportion of disengaged youth.  And this is not just about the Internet and technology but across citizenship generally.  And I agree these education -- it's education's role to kind of tackle that and is it heading in the right direction in terms of engagement, I suppose is my question.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Thank you.  An interesting point.  If young people aren't on board and really engaged, will there really be parents who are able to lead their children or will we still need an Internet safety program when you people have your own children.  I saw one further comment up there.  Yes?

   >> Hi.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: I think you need to move forward to get a microphone.  Oh, you've got a microphone.  Super.

   >> Hi, my name is Rosalie and I'm here from Denver, Colorado.  My husband is in the private sector and I'm a mom.  So my question would be, as I've grown, I have learned each step of digital media along the way.  My children, however, have grown up with it already existing, and that is a huge difference, and I'd really like to hear kind of what the young people on the panel have to say about their experience growing up with these things already in place and how they feel their interaction with the Internet and safety has been, I guess.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: So we'll get you to answer that same -- saying that you wanted to answer the question and then we're going to throw more questions to the floor.  Yes?

   >> Actually I would like to answer about the Internet safety.  It's because I think it's important to have Internet safety at present but also in the future.  It's because Internet safety is the purpose in order for us to have Internet.  We if we can't secure it's safe we can't do anything at all.  If you walk down the street and there are so many robberies and killings, and that's why you can't walk the street, you have to stay at home.  It also applies to the Internet, that if you cannot get on-line safely, you cannot do -- you cannot use the services or you cannot do anything with Internet, because all the information, all the Internet is incredible and you cannot trust it.  That's why it's important to have Internet safety at the present but also to improve it in the future so that all the things will go all right.  Thank you.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Thank you.  And I think Hemeric wanted to say something, right?

   >> Yeah, of course.  Actually regarding the Internet safety and what I think about it, I have younger siblings and younger cousins that I often take care of, and I hand them -- you know, when I'm tired, I don't want to entertain them physically anymore, I just give them my smartphone and let them use my laptop.  And I worry often like whether they're exposed to pornographic content.  That's the thing I'm most concerned with.  For example, kids are curious but I don't think curiosity in pornography is most of the intentional. 

   An example that I've kept on mentioning in previous workshops in this IGF was that of Lego and legs, okay?  Say a kid really likes Lego and so he types up Lego in the Web search.  But we all make mistakes, right?  So what if he misspells it to legs, right?  They're completely different things, and then pornographic content may come out.  Because it may cause unease to the kid because they're like so young, what is this?  So it can also stir curiosity in pornography.  Yeah.  That's it.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Yes, one last comment and then we -- yes?

   >> Yeah, I want to discuss this Internet safety thing because I think -- why I think internal safety is 90% common sense, but, you know, talking about pornography, there are studies demonstrating that it is not bad to expose a child to -- it's -- it's like exposing the ideas.  The Internet is about being opening, so why sensor content if there was -- in ten years or two years.  There are studies you can catch them on the Web, and they clearly say that there is no benefit in cutting content from the Internet.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: So I'm going to move on quickly otherwise you won't have time to discuss, look at that, though.  Boys call on Web developers while girls call on politicians.  I think they're seeing a real example of that here.  Another issue that's come up, diverging responsibilities, and I think we're hearing this also from our panel.  We have our policy makers, our politicians.  Are they meant to help with regulation and education?  Well, are they really and doing it properly?  Were developers safety by design?  Is it being taken into account?  Young people, do they really respect each other on-line, because I hope what they're telling us is the problems on Internet, that 80% behavior, one young person to another, and 20% other problems.  But I'm not going to go on there because I think when you come to a workshop, you want to talk and work, I would hope.

   And I said that we are going to now work together and try and help us choose a strategy for the coming year so we can meet again at the IGF 2014 and actually say, well, that was our strategy.  That's what we wanted to do.  Did we achieve it, yes or not?  See how good we are at that?  Well, once you've chosen your strategy, and it can be anything at all, we are going to vote at the end.  We are going to vote on the strategies of the five groups to see which one really comes out on top. 

   But it's not enough to choose a strategy because wrapped up in that we need to know, well, in fact, who are you addressing?  Are you addressing the teachers?  The companies?  Who is most involved in your strategy and thirdly, give us a couple of real concrete actions that these stakeholders really meant to take over the next year for, I would rather say, a better Internet. 

   So now you're going to turn around.  Can group leaders please put up your hand again so people can really see who you are.  So we have five reporters.  So if you can move around them with your Chair you're going to have half an hour to actually work on this, come up with your answer and I'm going to ask our young people each to go into a group so that we know that we've also got the voice of youth in our group.  Over to you, you have half an hour.  Are there any questions about what you're meant to do?  Super.  So we're going to get six great -- five great strategies that I can assure you, we will use them all.  Off you go into your groups.

   (working in groups)

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: You just have five minutes to go.  Now we're going to go around and collect the name of your strategy and we are going to hear from the best.  Five minutes to go.

   Time to go back to your seat.  So far I picked up three.  Just correct me if I'm wrong.  I've got privacy by default.  Am I right?  I've got a global declaration of responsible on-line users, I'm right?  Better collective social norms and values.  Oh, sorry.

   >> (off mic).

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Do you want better people?

   >> (off mic).

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Are you right with the one I got?  Okay.  Have we got them all?

   >> Yes.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Fine, so while we're talking -- while we're about to vote, and we need time to get these into the machine, we're going to get you to give one -- one sentence to do some real-world selling of your idea.  You've got one sentence to convince people.  I'm going to begin with privacy by default.  One sentence, please, Klaus.  Yes?  One sentence.  Sell it, quickly.

   >> (off mic).

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: And which is the name of yours?

   >> Privacy --

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Privacy by -- that's perfect.  That's perfect.  EConfident careers.  Give us a pitch.

   >> The missing voice from the IGF is that of parents who are not here because they're partners of IT company people.  They're here because they're parents and we want them here next year -- no offense, by the way.  We want them here next year and we want to help them to become eConfident careers for our people.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Thank you.  Raising awareness, analyzing challenges, education, education, education.  Who's giving the pitch?  Yes, Marco.

   >> Marco:  We had a group of multistakeholders, representing all the scope and I think from the discussion we analyzed some important challenges and we came to the conclusion that analyzing the challenges, then creating awareness on the problems, brings us to focus on education.  And education is important also because it's involving all the different factors, the institution, the parents, the industry providing too.  So it's really inclusive as an activity.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Thank you.  Yes?

   >> (off mic).

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: We'll let you add something.

   >> (off mic).

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: That's more than a sentence (chuckle).  Global declaration of responsible on-line users.  Give us your pitch.

   >> I've been told to keep it to a sentence by I agreed to prove that we can.  The sentence we put together is we don't believe that changing how the Internet works is the answer but how it's used is the answer.  We proposed a declaration for on-line users, so not by government signed by the users itself.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: So sort of a worldwide AUP, acceptable use policy.  Better collective social norms and values.  Larry, can --

   >> LARRY MAGID: (off mic).

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Super.  And the last one is inclusive empowering policy.  Thiago, is that you, yes?

   >> THIAGO TAVARES: Our group highlights that the Internet should be designed to the future generation.  That's one sentence that I got from George.  And also the capacity building should be a priority, especially in developing countries.  That was a contribution that we received from our colleagues from Africa and also from Cambodia and Nigeria representatives.  And this inclusiveness is mandatory to giving people voices at a conference like IGF and also --

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: I think we're getting more than a sentence.  (laughter).

   >> THIAGO TAVARES: That's it.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: That's it.  Super.  You lead me into one of the questions.  I find it a rather difficult session I meant to answer on my session report.  Who considers that they are from developing countries?  Is your country a developing country?  I meant to give the statistic for the report.  Okay.  Super. 

   So are we ready to vote and to see the winner?  You might have to switch your device back on if you remember how to do it.  The left button, because we haven't touched it for a while.  So what are you going for?  EConfident careers.  Raising awareness, education, education, education.  Privacy by default, global declaration of responsible on-line users, better collective social norms and values, or inclusive empowering policy.  What are we voting for?  How are we going?  There are some people their vote is not going to be counted if they don't get it there quickly.  Five seconds.  One, two, three, four -- there are still a couple.  Five.  Finished.  Just got in there.

   (Applause)

   So I now announce the winner.  If you move it along so I can just read it.  We have a winner.  EConfident careers.  We have second -- (laughter).  Second, we have better collective social norms and values.  And third with 19.2% we have education, education, education.  So you now have three minutes each to tell us how we're going to implement this strategy, starting with our eConfident careers.  Oh, sorry, I missed one thing.  We also had a suggestion from our remote participation in India, and can you quickly tell us what it is, please?

   >> (off mic).

   >> So we basically had a similar discussion about different points, and we actually focused again on the importance of understanding it's quite a complex issue and it can be quite different in different regions.  So we spent quite a while talking about a specific context in India, which is one of the fastly developing countries where you have a situation where there's some kind of digital revolution and all of a sudden everyone is going on-line very often and access is becoming very often but they're not completely aware about all the risks and the opportunities.  So I think we more had a discussion about the fact that it's important to approach it globally, to have some kind of global campaigns, such as, say Internet -- if you can have a similar thing which is quite different in local context and that's sort of the main thing.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Thank you.  Okay.  Simon, and then we'll go next for social norms because I know you've got to go to your workshop.  Sorry about that, unless you name someone to give --

   >> I'm actually interested in naming someone because I don't know if I even know.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: You name someone while we're busy with Simon.  Super.  Nicola --

   >> NICOLA DOUGLAS: We really discuss the missing -- what the missing voices are is the parents.  What is the problem with parents for learning things and gaining knowledge about things they need to to educate their children because after all, it all starts at home, and that's a nuclear environment, or with careers themselves, whoever is looking after the children is engaged with children from a young crucial age and building habits.  The problem with parents is they don't have the time.  In Britain we find that if you say, okay, here's an evening about Internet safety parents don't come along.  They're simply -- they simply don't have the time, they're busy individuals.  They have jobs, they have lives and many to earn money for their families. 

   So what we are trying to find out is the solution for this.  So what we suggested was a combination, parents learn best from each other so if you have a problem with your child who do you ask?  You don't ask an expert.  You go to someone who -- who is another parent, who has experienced this, so we want expert peers that can talk with each other, and we also may be looking into getting app developers.  So I think the concrete -- so app developers, people who can create maybe a technology that can sort of teach lessons for young people.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: I have to stop you there.  But what I do promise is that you're going to write it down for me because I do want these written, really short, but written so that we can really put it out as our declaration from the IGF.  Can we have someone now from your group?  Yes?

   >> Okay.  So we had the collective of social norms.  I think the point of collecting social norms is because worldwide we're just all human, and we need to teach our children how to be human, how to be kind, how to -- how to do those basic human things that we all want to make this a better world.  And that is how we're going to make a better Internet.  And then obviously -- so besides using social norms, just as you mentioned, needing to have that education awareness for parents so that way it becomes a commonplace thing that while mom is shopping on-line, her children are watching, hey, I have a password, or I did not give them, you know, my favorite color and my dog's name and address, or I did, and depending on all these things.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Super.  It's amazing how the two meet, but we really -- you can join us on our forum, the Insafe forum, safe for Internet.org, continue this discussion or on our Facebook site.  So Marco, can you tell us, education, education, education?

   >> Yes, so you want from me at this time?  Okay?  In terms of -- we spent time identifying the challenges and I think we did a good job in terms of not looking also at the technical issues, like, for example, the safety on-line and the problem of spam.  Also thinking about some of the challenges we have facing in this moment, like surveillance -- the problem of surveillance on-line and so on.  So we then move in looking to raising awareness as an opportunity for us to understand -- to raise awareness again in all the different areas of these issues, and then we finalize the strategy by focusing on education as a way, so you know what the problems, to find connectivity, a way to overcome these problems.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Thank you very much.  And I would like just -- I would like to point out that actually we worked very, very hard with young people of the year, and you probably see this book.  We actually wrote it with young people so that they have a way of starting the conversation and reflecting, because they don't really have confidence with their parents being able to lead them.  If anyone here is from Bali or wants to take home a whole bundle for their class, please come now to our booth.

   We had a word from India because we had a suggestion from India.  Can you give us a quick word?  We have one minute, please.  Mustafa.

   >> Hi.  This is one of the wonderful tools.  You could use it for awareness and education.  In India, 2014, safer Internet we are planning to celebrate.  Not a celebration anymore, it's observation.  We want to celebrate 1 -- it's 600 million people will be observing safer Internet day in India and that's what we are hoping we are -- we're hoping to write to our prime minister to have the it nationwide, and this is every school, every, you know, district, you could read the message, at every level, to the parents, to the teachers, and that's really as most participants mentioned, we should have a global campaign on safer Internet day.  That's what I urge your commission to take it up in a very high level.  Thank you.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Thank you very much, because you actually said what I was going to say at the end.  Not quite the end.  Just one word from anyone who wants to because there's another group waiting to come in.  I think you've had your say.  You spoke.  Did you have something, I think, that I saw you really itching to say something?

   >> No, nothing.

   >> JANICE RICHARDSON: Okay.  I would really like to thank you.  I think we've managed to do something interactive, but I feel that this is just the beginning.  Insafe does have a Facebook profile where you can come in, you can join us.  You can say the things you want to say, because I really believe that it's creating a better Internet together, and this is why it has slowing and for 2014, so let's do it, but please, can the group leaders make sure someone in your group is going to send me a few words so that we don't lose the very important things you've done together? 

   I'd really like to thank our young people, who I think are teaching us and leading us in many ways.  I'd like to thank the European Commission and Google for being co-organizers.  I would like to thank Facebook for permitting us also to get an extra person here, and the Insafe and the Safer Internet team.  We had a man who carried these hundreds of kilos of voting tools from all over the U.K. to Bali.  So thank you very much for your participation, and please just let's keep going together to create a better Internet together.  Thank you.

   (Applause)