EuroDIG: resume and looking ahead

30 September 2011 - A Other on Regional & National Initiatives in Nairobi, Kenya

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September 30, 2011 - 09:00AM


The following is the output of the real-time captioning taken during the Sixth Meeting of the IGF, in Nairobi, Kenya. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the session, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.


>> Okay.  Thank you very much for your reflections.  I am supposed to organize the previous event in Madrid.  It was one of the key organizers.  She was more or less [INAUDIBLE] of Madrid and, ah, I would like to ask you now is let's say a distance of about 18 months.  Maybe you have a different perception about the previous Belgrade event in April 2010 in Madrid.  Please, ah, what are your thoughts about the whole issue?

>> Ana:  First of all, I would like to point out that there is a trend.  Many other things that worked well in Madrid continue to improve in Belgrade.  So I think that's very positive.  We were ‑‑ we also made a lot of effort, but Belgrade was huge and a lot bigger in participation.  For me, very important.  Looking like you said, almost two years afterwards.  The local effect that it had.  It was important and we also had a lot of Spanish participation in the event and we have seen that in the initiatives that we have had, the local initiatives, the local platform, the Spanish IGF.  There was deep work and with disability and people were aware of the impact that the discussions actually have and they were more willing to continue this participation at local level.  So, I would like to point that out.  At unity level, um ‑‑ okay.  At unit level, I think one of the things that work best in Madrid was industry participation.  Telefonica was very active.  It gave a very strong support in all senses.  Not only they supported with their facilities and ‑‑ and some funding, but they also were very active.  And in Spain, that means a lot.  Telefonica is a leader of the industry.  That helped a lot of companies actually look at this and wonder what is going on and, you know, how they can participate and how they can contribute.  So that's also an effect I would like to point out and we should continue to work on that because it is also very important.  And, um, as far as government, the Spanish precedence was taking place at time.  Yeah.  So ‑‑

>> Okay.  Thanks a lot, Ana.  Before I now give the floor to any other contributors for remarks and ideas and reflection, let me from my perception perhaps highlight the same direction as Ana mentioned already, but I perceive as one of the strengths of ‑‑ from the very beginning and the start in Strasbourg.  We can be inclusive as much as possible regarding a regional diversity that we always try to when we had an event as a first Strasbourg in Geneva.  Belgrade was [INAUDIBLE] for outreach in south east European countries.  The Belgium area.  This is quite important.  The other point is trying to have a balance of the hosts.  You mentioned already the involvement of Telefonica, a big step forward for Madrid and then we had a deep low in Belgrade.  Next we vail governmental host and I think we should try in the future to always assure this kind of balance between the stakeholders and also the regional balance.  This makes the whole thing much more exciting.  So that there will all be new elements to be considered and they can include and this will make the whole thing more vivid and I think subversing I can imagine about something like Yurdic.  It would one day become a kind of routine.  It would in my eyes be something like the beginning of the end and we must do something to keep this rose as exciting as possible.  So for my few remarks and I invite you to give us some more ideas about previous events, previous experiences.  If not the case so far, there was ‑‑ [INAUDIBLE] told me he would be interested to say something, but he has a room and I couldn't reach him.  For sure, he would have had interests contribution from the whole [INAUDIBLE].  Yes, please.

>> My name is Anders.  We'll come back.  We'll come back next year.  But some reflections on the year to date so far.  I have taken part in all of them and I've seen I would say a dramatic change in the 3, 3 and a half years.  And I was very delighted to more or less by accident take part in the first one.  And I was happy with the subjects that was discussed.  Then they developed a lot during the following year to dates and the following participation has been going from maybe it was a 100 up to 500.  So, um, it's challenging and I think that also chose that we had European level are interested in discussing these internet cabinets themes.

>> Okay.  Thanks.  I would like to ask Yesna.  I just realize you are in the room.  Perhaps you would like to also [INAUDIBLE] and piece.

>> Yes.  I'm sorry we were all a little bit late due to the traffic jam in Arobi.  As you might have mentioned, we were the hosts of the EuroDIG this year and, ah, the similar to the switch case, the digital agenda administration in Serbia was co‑organizing with us the Diplo.  We had our prime minister open the conference and the excitement was very high across the board in the government in the civil society.  We had great participation, remote and on this part as well and I think there is true interests in Europe at least for this topic.  People have genuine concerns with various groups and various interests.  In our case, we have a little bit of resources and attention and we have produced good results.  And I'm sure this will be the case in the years to come.  I think for any government, this is a good, ah event and a good action.  For me personally and I have been in charge on telecommunications and information society in Serbia for three years now.  Doug with the stakeholders has always been very helpful.  I think one should not lose from mine that the technology in ICT developed so quickly.  It is, um, generally not the pace that any government can follow easily and for us, it is a huge challenge to bring order ministries on board with their regulation which, ah, always affects our area.  So, any event like this helps mobilize energy, get the message across and involve the stakeholders which is always important.  I think for us much more than for other parts of the government, it is essentially importance to have the stakeholders involved because the government itself does not have the resources that would suffice to follow the pace and the development itself.  So, I as a host of EuroDIG this year can fully recommend hosting this for any other government because the benefits are really huge.

>> Okay.  Thanks a lot, Yesna, for your conclusions and for your nice remarks.  And are there any more comments?  Yes, please.

>> Hello, good morning.  I am from the news press.  I want to say a couple words.  The massive participation was increased this year.  And we hosted in the media summer school in Belgrade like 4 days prior to the EuroDIG and two days present at EuroDIG and were 75 people were mostly researchers and youth organizations.  Masters and communications, law, and everyone dealing with the Internet goes from the academic and the volunteer point of view and we have two main fields.  The first one was democracy participation and human rights where we talked about data retention, about firewalls, about Marking filtering and at same time about open data reactions on the wick leaks cases, et cetera, and E‑participation.  And the second thematic field voice is tomorrow's Internet how we called it also our claim is the web of tomorrow is yours and you will find then with of tomorrow.EU.  So we talk about neutrality in there.  Digital identities and online privacy digital literacy, one of our core topics and empowerment and education of use and the digital era and about the next WEP how it is 3.0.  It was a very nice seminar with a EuroDIG organization from the [INAUDIBLE] of Europe and also from Vlada and the Diplo Foundation.  We're currently started the planning.  Maybe I can say something about that later, but we want to make it even bigger.  Thank you.

>> Okay.  Thank you very much.  This sounds very promising and I think we should come back out to this point in the planning part of today's session.

>> Yeah.  Thank you.  I think that one of the advantages of EuroDIG, advantages of the incredibly light type of organization it is.  One of the advantages is that it has been very flexible.  It can react going swiftly to emerging issues and trends.  And now, of course, we are in the process of strengthening the organization and trying to ‑‑ trying to plan and trying to make things ready a little bit earlier than just on the eve of EuroDIG, but I still hope we will preserve this element of flexibility in our planning.

>> Thanks a lot.  This [INAUDIBLE] almost as a bridge to our second part of today's agenda and I see in a similar direction we must try our best to keep the best spot we have.  And to improve the weaknesses and, ah, this is small.  The content of our second part, latest development within EuroDIG or from Belgrade to Nairobi.  For the core team, um, you had a short analysis after Belgrade about event itself and then we had a planning meeting beginning of July in, ah, in Zurich.  It is now [INAUDIBLE] who will give us a summary about a planning meeting and part of this force, the draft of the [INAUDIBLE] for the EuroDIG association and, ah, as the ideas or methods be discussed how we could improve the organizational structure to stabilize.  So the organization process across the next event, but now it's somehow will tell us more about this.

>> Thank you, Wolf.  You almost mention everything I wanted to say, but, ah, first I want to draw your attention again to the messages of Belgrade which we drafted well after the summer break right before the Nairobi meeting and I don't want to draw the attention only to the Belgrade messages because EuroDIG seizes tasks and also in providing haven't to other IGF inter‑governance debates.  I put other messages from other countries that are available down at lobby.  I put them over there.  If you are interested what other regional IGFs are reflecting, what are they talking about, please keep the message and I think it is very interesting to see the diversity of the messages they brought to Nairobi.  So please take one and there are also some other gifts for you which you are invited to take home.  Well, wolf mentioned already we had this planning meeting at Zurich.  It was on purpose we did it right one month after the Belgrade meeting because the impression was fresh and we wanted to keep that into [INAUDIBLE] from kitchen Belgrade to think about what we will do and how we improve it and mentioned already how we can structure the rule.  It's not even an association yet.  We talked about how we can draft very light by laws which allow almost everybody to payment, government, civil society, but also give us a sort of the structure background to raise funds to negotiate with others and get the things going on in more structured way that it's not happened by charts from one year to the other which was sometimes the case in the last time.  But now what I found with participant in an event, you have to have some sorted structure.  We agreed that we want to have a carry structure that we want to have different pillars which are supporting the EuroDIG process.  One of the pillars is the business sector.  Another pillar is the governmental ‑‑ the governmental perspective and another one is the civil society.  We are very happy that we have to support from representing the, sector as one of very strong pillar.  We are very happy to have the ongoing support from the counsel of Europe and out come from the communication of Switzerland.  These are our main pillars, but we know that we have also to include smaller groups like the techniques, the bloggers, more use involvement and all these things to keep the dialogue, to keep the light and flexible structure and keep the dialogue interesting because it make no sense if the usual suspects which are meeting during IGF meetings and [INAUDIBLE].  We need new and fresh input.  Therefore, I encourage everybody in the room not so far involved in EuroDIG.  It was a very broadened thing.  Well, society planning meeting reflects and to look back.  Also to draft statutes which will be circulated soon and to agree how we are going to arrange messages of Belgrade.  Um, well, I think that's the main purpose.

>> Okay.

>> WOLF LUDWIG:  Okay.  Thanks.  Yes.  I think you highlighted the most important points and I think it was one of the ‑‑ for me, it was one of the most important outcomes from Zurich was after four successful events, there is no way to lean back and feel comfortable with what we have.  There are still a lot of challenges and there are still a lot of points we should improve in the future.  This is involve more parts from the different stakeholder groups.  One big progress was said already is use.  There are other parts which are partly used or beyond used which is served a population portion of the Natives.  A lot of net base discussions are going on in different countries and I think we must attract more of the blogger feeds.  So superior parties which are getting more and more interesting in some of the European countries and these are the dialogues.  We have to better consider in our planning process and in our programming for the next step.  I see, ah, Patrick's hand raised.

>> PATRIK FALTSTROM:  Thank you very much.  Patrik Falstrom, one of the people from Sweden trying to get things together up there.  I guess we do have requests from people that are sort of ‑‑ they lose federational people that call them the south telecomics that I have been work quite a lot in the Arab countries.  They have requested to do a pre‑meeting specifically in a non‑conference style related to freedom of expression and the Internet just to get these bloggers which are more used in the conference style to have the day before to bring them the deeper discussion that they hope to be able to have into the conference a similar way that was done for the youth last year.  We'll see where that leads.  We in discussion with them.  Of course, it doesn't have to do with financing the other meeting where they can help people to finding room, who can pay for [INAUDIBLE] and all of those logistic things.  There are some ideas at least to do that.

>> WOLF LUDWIG:  Thanks a lot, Patrik.  I think this is a good idea and we have to follow up on this and we have to try to include it into next steps.

>> I hope I'm doing this right.  I'm also from Serbia from the ministry from the digital agenda.  I also painted in the organizing of EuroDIG in Belgrade.  I know most of you.  I wanted to say that back home in Belgrade, we have generally an excellent relationship with what we caught internet society that people who are very active on twitter and social networks with the bloggers and we do a lot of work with them in forming our own policies and moving things forward because it gives us a better view of understanding how to do things in, um, how should I say.  In a kind of a way that, um, makes what is happening on the Internet easier as to put into policy.  I think I'm saying this in a clear way.  Sometimes it's hard to say what is actually going on and putting it into words because it is a lot of interaction.  I think one of the benefits of Belgrade and one of the benefits we were able to bring to the table is the amount of people from Serbia that were actually bloggers, the people on twitter and are the social networks that came and painted and we were quite surprised with the number of people from this let's say background scene that were active there.  So, um, we are a bit proud of our own Internet community and I hope that this was a trigger that will really bring forward the bloggers, the people that are somehow in the shade own.  You can't hear the voices and you can read it, but you can't hear the voice.  And I think that one of the benefits of Belgrade is that you got to hear the voice.  Maybe we can talk again with our colleagues from Sweden and try the same participation from the Nordic countries basically in, ah, in Sweden because I know it the be very well, um, the participation from the Nordic countries in Stockholm next year will be high.  We can work on that.  It's not all that kind of a brave thing to do, but it's good to get them involved early on as well.  That was just from me.

>> WOLF LUDWIG:  Thanks a lot for this suggestion and we will come back to this in the CERT part of today's meeting.  Just as long as we are in the second part, um, Sanka mentioned it already.  It's a time from Belgrade to Nairobi it's a process how we can consolidate organizational structure of Yurdic.  We had one very good news because we had been discussing for a long time this business stakeholder groups and we found Eco who will be a focal point for the business sector in the future.  It's the official decision from this organization and I'm pleased to welcome Helen who is with us and now I would like to give us a lot to henning just to introduce shortly you and Eco to ask and to say more about this.

>> Okay.  Um, yeah.  First of all, thanks for the opportunity of being here.  I'm from Eco.  It silent job Internet industry association.  We represent, um, a reform, um, members and RSBs in Germane and is more than 200 back bones from the German Internet.  Eco answer germ commercial called D6, which is one.  World's greatest Internets in the world.  Eco is one of the organizers of the, um, German Internet governance forum that took place CERT this year.  Yeah.  Eco really appreciates the EuroDIG and during the last year, EuroDIG has become a relevant platform open for participants and who are interested in the topics of Internet governance and, um, some multi‑sting holder dialogue.  EuroDIG is a very good facilitator for the multi‑stakeholder and open self‑regulatory and buttoned up approach dialogue on the European level from our point of view.  And, um, there's more EuroDIG supports on the establishment of new and more and [INAUDIBLE] Internet governance initiatives, I think.  Therefore, Eco has decided to take a more active part and to get more involved in the EuroDIG process.  So, I'm very happy to announce that Eco will become the focal point for business sector for EuroDIG.  Thanks for the moment.

>> WOLF LUDWIG:  Yes.  I see Andres from Wolfgang.

>> I think one of the important steak holders is members of the parliament and I can give a quick report about a meeting in civil society.  Representatives had with European members during this IGF that was two days ago.  There was a delegation with representatives and it was really shocking to hear that, um, Pilla Castilio is tearing this small delegation.  It would be good have the Internet conference forum.  It was absolutely confusing.  So I reacted and said we haven't already and there was a very recognized member of the European parliament.  So they have given her support to the first IGF in Strasbourg.  It's true that for the European parliament in their world, um, they have not yet really discovered EuroDIG and recognized it as the European Internet governance forum.  So I don't know if everybody noticed it, but after the IGF in Rio de Janeiro, they're calling for a European governance forum.  The idea not to wait until the European parliament organize its with the help of the counselor of Europe.  We argued we have to start earlier and not only in two years time.  We avoided the terminology.  The Europe own governance forum and we saw this in a competition to the European parliament.  That's why we used the dialogue on Internet governance.  The background story for us.  And ‑‑ and my reply to Pilla De Castillo ‑‑ (no sound) ‑‑ but, of course, it's quite aware and she also supports EuroDIG.  So it's not a problem this European Commission.  It is primarily the European parliament.  Not only from the European parliament, but also from national parliaments included into the EuroDIG process.  This would make the event much more stronger.  Thank you.

>> WOLF LUDWIG:  Thanks, Wolfgang for your observations and your recommendation.  I think it's beyond any doubts that European parliamentarians or even international parliamentarians they immediately contacted him and invite him to participate in Stockholm and he promised to come and be ‑‑ we have to identify more of national parliamentarians, European parliamentarians and include them in the whole process.  Are there any first comments, remarks, questions regarding our second part.  But as Santra said already for civic planning meeting was a development of milestones to Stockholm.  We already mentioned on the invitation of today's workshop.  Let me shortly summarize, um, this milestones base they are now leading or bridging into the CERT part of our meeting today.  That's the outlook and the planning process for Stockholm.  Amongst the mile tones to is Stockholm boss, the EuroDIG presentation of Nairobi and IGF down stairs to the counsel of Europe what was ‑‑ (no sound) the ideas and expectations and [INAUDIBLE].  Thank you, all.  I would like to start with clarifying six basic ideas.  And, ah, and some of them are already said here this morning.  But as I see it, another one is that we strengthen and stabilize the EuroDIG process, but still keep the flexibility that [INAUDIBLE].  The second bar that's the way to strengthen it, which is very important.  And we could have more ‑‑ more clear partners and, ah, and Deaners to be able to strengthen this and keep it growing and getting better and better.  We need ‑‑ we need money for this and this is very important.  For instance, the European union institutions like the commission for instance and I think they all have to, ah, to, ah, to talk to the institutions about this so we can have results.  The third is to bring in more stakeholders and we have a lot ‑‑ in ideas on this I will come back to in a minute or two.  And the fourth is to strengthen EuroDIG as an important feeder to IGF.  And the fifth is to promote dialogue not only among insiders, but to have a lot more of other stakeholders.  And the sixth is to, um, to make it very clear that the main challenge is the themes for EuroDIG 2012 in early stage and work out the process and the program.  So that's some basic ideas.  And now the step forth coming in service months.  As I see it, today is the start to call for issues and topics and workshops.  Ideas as you mentioned welcome with this to the office of EuroDIG, the website or two people involved in the process like me and others.  And number 2 is that we ‑‑ the idea is to, um, ah, to gather in November what has done so far and we might go for a second call for, um, topics and input.  And then in January to have a preparatory meeting and then, ah, and, ah, and come further and be able to take final decisions in February on the ‑‑ on the 2012 revamp.  And definitely in April have names and everything quite clear so that we have that.  Milestones, we'll fix the milestones and have it all fixed before cooking the food before the conference, the dialogue.  Some ideas about promoting other groups more stakeholders and one was mentioned by PATRIK.  This dialogue with people and civil society that are very, very engaged some of them.  And quite a lot of them.  Bloggers and others in issues like for instance, net activities or, ah, ah, people that for instance started pirate party.  In Berlin, they won 8% of the votes.  So it's important movement and in Sweden, ah, in the [INAUDIBLE] for the European parliament, this party came along the last couple of months also depending on an important debate about the balance between secure and privacy.  And I think it was three seats in the European parliament.  And, ah, and I think there are people that are engaged and I think we should have a better dialogue and to understand what they would be able ‑‑ what we can gain out of this.  And why start to have a process on that and before EuroDIG Stockholm is that Swedish aid ‑‑ (no sound) ‑‑ the things you do and also at Nordic level to bring in Nordic young people and, um, maybe I'll get back to you and I would like to comment on that and then I come back.

>> Not all the Nordic countries are planning to have ‑‑ (no sound)

>> So far, Swedish from Sweden, the only thing that is really clear is that we have from my agency 50,000 Euros is also almost clear with one industry company with 25,000 ‑‑ (no sound) working in the same electronic communication agency as I do.  Thank you.

>> Okay.  Thanks a lot, Andres, for presenting the first basic ideas and you are six points on our wait Stockholm.  I would now like to open the floor for any first contributions, please.

>> Thank you.  Matias from Austria and rime working for the government.  I would like to share a limit bit with you some thoughts which are also connected to my experience as a civil servant for about 17 years.  The administration is dealing with the policy, Seattle policy which means we have similar problems as regards the questions and how to get money, how to get interest and especially attraction for something because only an event is attractive and people are ready to pay for it.  Attractive in the way that people need certain benefits from my institution.  Well, first attractive.  I think it is highly attractive for the community that we are also ‑‑ we ‑‑ we need new people not only the usual suspects as we call them from the community.  It was before speaking how to attract more parliamentarians.  For me, two groups ‑‑ we have to talk about parliamentarians, but also still the press cover affect we have, of course, some press coverage, but it can be optimized or include.  The old thing always is when you want to get a politician a parliamentarian is a politician or when you get ‑‑ want to get a journalist, you both have something in common.  It is the concrete story of the needs to be either in the newspaper, on TV or the famous [INAUDIBLE] I will have to tell you.  You are well experienced journalist, but you need to start.  When, for example, when do we have coverage regarding so called Internet information society issues?  For example, my country the Austrian press.  Never do I come to them and tell them about a process about the Internet security.  For example, just three examples when it was.  First, big article about Google street fuel.  When people really complained to the Google street fuel cars are there.  Second the terrible [INAUDIBLE].  When it all started, what wases guy doing in the connection [INAUDIBLE].  The third a case where a lot of people are a limit bit smiling.  The third was a problem.  There's at Austrian authority that is responsible for taking the fees for public broadcaster and there was an attack on them and 250,000 people data was stolen.  So these were the stories.  Therefore, when we do the press coverage and announcements, we have to refer to very concrete cases.  Sorry.  Don't want to be too long, but the second remark is just for the stakeholders.  We always speak, of course, about various groups.  One group, I think we miss so far, but we shouldn't have completely ignored.  We often talk about governments and so on and also parliamentarians, but we should at least consider how to involve [INAUDIBLE].  Because courts, judges in the way there are more and more enrolled and concrete decisions regarding two new media.  For example, dealing with really what is my problem when I have to decide about the balance between privacy position, freedom of expression.  So either from the European rights or somebody like this.  I did for example organize the seminar some months ago about personality rights and the problems in the internet with charges.  It shouldn't turn out to be a willing discussion or lawyers discussion, of course, but to have also the perspective.  Last remark I was ‑‑ I think I was one of the most important supporters to bring in EuroDig I strongly support that we should continue that, but now I'm at the other side of the [INAUDIBLE].  I don't see really old people.  I mean, we are old maybe, yeah.  We are not too young anymore, but we have the senior net and the really old people.  I think we do not really have that was so far and another group that I miss is the problem really of immigrants, migrants.  For example, everywhere.  We have this big Turkish community and so on.  They have Internet activities and so on.  That's this topic of migrants we should have bought.  Thank you.

>> Okay thank you very much Matias.  Before I give the floor to Ana and [INAUDIBLE], I very much appreciate what you said.  We have to consider vulnerable groups of society.  You talked about the migrants, but also 50 plus generation.  There's still a major portion of the population and we can not completely neglect them and of course we have to try to avoid any digital device and seniors where so far considered as one ‑‑ as part of the vulnerable groups which are not yet, ah, at the step into the net agent, the information agent.  And I think we have to be very balanced and we have to probably consider some.  The next on my list is now ‑‑ anything from remote?  Do you agree that you first consider contribution from a remote moderation?  Please.

>> Thank you.  We have a couple of people who are remotely following us.  Oxsana has a question.  Do you and developing European countries especially on capacity building and modern stakeholders literacy.  Thank you.

>> Okay.  Thanks for this contribution.  I think it was more a comment than a question as far as I understood.

>> She's asking is there any programs that are doing that counselor of Europe or [INAUDIBLE]?  Are they do anything similar programs for developing countries on literacy?

>> For developing countries to my knowledge not really.  This is probably a question that can be answered by even counsel of Europe.

>> Thank you very much.  There is a program that teaches literacy on the internet which therefore trains young children, young people.  So, it is ongoing.  It is not just for developing countries.  It is the counsel of Europe level.  With that said, that should be more done in my opinion.  There are one of two conferences on literacy coming up.  I don't have the details with me, but it is on the right screen.  It is something that misses here in IGF.  I didn't see much in the way of literacy.  I think it needs to be repicked up for the future.  Thank you.

>> Okay.  Thanks, Lee.  You're on the list and the next on my list is Ana ‑‑ Ana, you have the floor and Thomas after.

>> Ana:  Thank you.  I wanted to insist on inclusiveness which I know is one of the important things for EuroDIG, but being inclusive is also being geographically inclusive and we had a huge impact in Spain and sometimes we're missing out on this.  There is no funding like we mentioned and it is difficult for people to actually travel and participate and be active.  So we have a strong community in Spain and this dialogue is strong and it's active and I'm aware that there are more things happening in Portugal and Italy and I would ask for more southern countries participation.  Again, I'm also going out for funding and Deaners and companies helping out, you know, helping people travel and participate and that's also something we also need to budget for.  Like Andres said, the host is the only part of the funding that we need.  We also need to provide resources for all these people.  So thank you.

>> Thank you, Ana.  The next one is Hahn.

>> [INAUDIBLE] at first it's that in order for if to be general media excitement and impact, there needs to be local media excitement and for there to be local media excitement, I think maybe the Swedish side to be listed with speakers like [INAUDIBLE] to generate that kind of excitement.  Point number 1.  Point number 2 I think that there aught to be balance about your daily angles on a cyber space without general application.  For example, it seems to me there aught to be discretion amongst leading lawyers of the invitations and throughout the world of things that have been made.  For example, in the U.K. and [INAUDIBLE] that could restrict free flowing information in cyber space.  And I'd like to know actually who would like to organize them.  I'd like to know who and when can make [INAUDIBLE] proposal.

>> Before I give the floor to Yulia, there are some potential answers to your questions.  We are, of course, in the first reflection process.  Starting with the Jewish planning meeting and continue from now on.  I think Swedish form and his personality will play a major role in the mobilization process for Stockholm.  I think it could be rather stupid not to try our best to use this.  And also, ah, about performance of new sessions.  We will not trust repeat what we had for Belgrade.  Some of the elements, but we will think of [INAUDIBLE] and of course to invite [INAUDIBLE] and build to support patronage of the whole event.  I reissued what was mentioned by MATIAS before attracting media will be another challenge.  And there are different ways to address media.  It can be a local event with a focus.  Carl built young people for open discussion or whatever.  At this type of ideas, we need to reflect and we need to develop Stockholm programming.  The second part ‑‑ your second question was to whom you can address proposals.  To my left, it's myself.  We are, ah, you will find us on the Yurdic that side as an e‑mail addresses and whenever you have ideas, please from today, tomorrow on, send them to us and we will start ‑‑ there will be reconfirms that this was the idea and at first collect them and analyze them and making an assessment.  It's now Yulia who has the floor.

>> We're in this together from some organization.  I would like to just support with my TSA said about the better inclusion of migrants and the comment of golf concerning vulnerability people.  I would like to say we would be very happy to bring these people or to organize the workshop.  There may somebody finings for this available weekend that we can work together on this and in order to better include them into the process section.  Thank you.

>> Thanks, Yulia.  I trust [INAUDIBLE] there is a lady in the back who raised her hand quite early.  Now I suggest from us that we take care and [INAUDIBLE].

>> Thank you.  Janice Richardson.  I am here row presenting in safe European network under the European Commission program.  But I also represent European school net, which is the consortium of 30 ministers of education and maybe I missed something because our bus was late, but I think that education is a sector which has never been invited to these meetings, which is not at all involved in these meetings and which has a lot to say especially when we're talking about literacy citizenship, et cetera.

>> Thank you very much.  Before I give it to Thomas, I must say from the very first beginning, medium Internet literacy or issue at Yurdic from the Strasbourg meeting to Geneva, you always had bad trips on this.  But you are kindly invited to present proposals for [INAUDIBLE].

>> Okay because what I want to say is that no education minister to my knowledge and I represent 30 have been informed, invited and maybe we can see here how many people really do represent the education set up.

>> Please, ah, as you said before, Sal, different elects and different empty spots so far we have to fill up and you are invited to make any suggestions to recommend any names to us and we'll be pleased to consider.  Thank you very much.  Thomas, you now have the floor and after ward, it's Lee.

>> Thank you.  Thomas from the Swiss government.  At one of the handful of people in Paris at the 2008 meeting drinking a glass of wine, if no one else does something on a European level, we will try to do.  I am delighted to see how this takes momentum.  I am happy to see Eco business stepping in seriously and we're delighted to the conferences that are organized.  Because those that started it and everybody else, we never perceived it as belonging to some special organizations, but as a catalyst and a platform that is there for everybody to use it, that's the goal.  It seems to work more and more, which is something that is really a [INAUDIBLE].  Another point is I think we have to try to be on the forefront of the foreman and the way they organized the meetings.  We have to [INAUDIBLE] the discussions and that we have as impactive discussions as possible with us many people in the room discussing outside the room which is a nice thing.  It's not so easy to fulfill this task, but we have been trying and I think also in Sweden, we should make a step ahead and also with the things with including people, one thing I also wanted to say and I am glad, migrant, vulnerable, those young people, not the young educated that the say we don't need guidance.  We know who to trust.  Those who organize the riots in the street of European cities, those who are not on the top of education and background, I think we have to get these people and these issues and their concerns in to create the bridges and that's a very important thing.  And I will stop with the key point which has already been mentioned by Anders and others.  Funding.  Money income contributions.  We started with money and enthusiasm is still their and also growing, but the expectation are raising the number of participants.  We tried to be serious.  It doesn't work without money.  It was encouraging that last year when we started the first fund raising activities that quite a lot of business companies had spontaneously joined and had governments, it has been more difficult.  I understand you all have budget cuts and so on and so forth, but money is spent for more silly things than supporting a platform which is for all the cities.  So I would everyone to join those who give funding.  We life a lot of positive signals from the European Commission from 7CCT and these.  Think about finding a little bit of money in your administrations.  It's important to have some money from governance too.  It might be funded in a multi‑stakeholder and that's probably just a few.

>> A strong appeal.  I have now three speakers on my list and I unfortunately have to close down now because we're rung short of time.  It's now Lee and then the gentleman in the back and more or less the last [INAUDIBLE] flat up and make a conclusion of today's [INAUDIBLE].

>> I will go in reverse, but, ah, it's clear that we have to be really stick Stockholm too.  It might not sell lots, but to really reach out to all European countries and to mobilize those people, it's a lot of work.  So I hope the checks that we write our bodies can cash.  So I think it needs to be realistic and without a permanent secretary every day looking after Yurdic, it will be difficult to mobilize as much as we want to mobilize.  Just a few points, I think, you know, from the Yurdic team, I just want to retry to Sweden ‑‑ it's another step in a very good direction and thank you, Anders to you and Helen and the telecom agency, of course, for agreeing to that.  It's important to note that.  It is important that it doesn't matter and the Belgrade team and, Vladda, you know, not enough things can go to you.  We are here because of you.  It has to be said.  Ana almost is here.  We have an alumni of people, which is very good.  Ana and dot Sand the Spanish ministry, we thank them still.  And they should still be with us even if not physically present.  Please try to bring them in.  Of course the EBU who hosted the meeting is still with us.  We thank them.  We thank President Felipe for that.  They will be there with us in Stockholm, but there are many more people to bring in and to thank.  Overall when you look at what's hang every day in the newspapers, every issues, big meetings, the EGA, you know, WIKI leaks, UN reports, the recent news regarding human rights counsel in Sweden.  Excellent news and almost every day there are event regarding Internet.  After there's a need to discuss freely, openly about these things outside of formal sessions, plain recessions, et cetera.  So I think Yurdic feels that need.  There is also need to track those events.  So I wonder whether there's room, capacity to track and sort of keep an eye on who's happening.  I can tell you there's give different Evince all related to you.  There are so many events that one can easily lose track.  I think maybe that's something we tried to do to build into the website.  National IGFs are growing.  I think we need to make more effort to bring them in.  It takes time and energy.  We need to find a way to reach out to them and bring them in.  They're there.  We're here.  That's important.  I think overall, what's really important is that to understand these, there's need for dialogue.  It's democracy for the Internet.  It's democracy.  It's democracy.  We talked about that.  It's there.  It's there.  So I don't know what that means extensively, but we should think about that.  It's a theme.  And one last point just to finish by saying that.  The space is in Yurdic.  Whether [INAUDIBLE] or workshops, but I do think we should try to cultivate the spaces outside those sessions.  One cannot always speak so freely in an event because one as has a position.  But to learn and why things are not work comes outside.  I would like to make sure they cultivate the need.  You call it networking.  Just the ability just to mill around freely.  I don't know how that, um, how that materialized, but I think it's important.  So thank you again.  Thank you.

>> Thanks, Lee.  And also the gentleman in the back.

>> Yes.  I am Stuart Hamilton from the international federation of library associations which is the global body that represents the world's libraries.  Within Europe, we actually have millions of libraries uses as well.  This is a very relevant form for us.  We haven't been involved in the EuroDIG before, but listening to the contributions and the references to various stakeholder groups every day, we not only provide Internet access to millions of people in Europe, but we work with old people, unite groups, children's groups, disadvantaged youths.  So I wanted to sort of bring to the table the fact that libraries want to be involved in the next EuroDIG.  I think we might be able to bring to the table some of the spaces in fact that Lee was just talking about, the Swedish library association to be brought on board and I am very happy to take a [INAUDIBLE] to see what libraries can bring.

>> Thank you very much.  This is a very important aspect and very welcome for Stockholm planning.  We have [INAUDIBLE] and then we conclude.

>> We wanted to engage the online community.  As part of the blogging community, I have this feeling that often conferences they want to have this online coverage.  So that's why they invite bloggers.  But the thing is that often bloggers there's not this bridging, the online to be offline and that's ‑‑ that make its for bloggers a bit more difficult to understand the subjects have ‑‑ of these conferences and as well because, um, the EuroDIG has very large subjects and bloggers are often very specialized.  I think we feed to have a recession on that.

>> Thanks.  Vladda now.

>> Couple of shocking things.  Couple things we should not forget.  Remote participation first one.  It gave a lot of empowerment to not participate T. should be a continued process.  It should not be linked just to the event.  It has to go all the over Europe.  It is adding to the list and it's quite huge.  Is the education capacity building?  That's what we did in 2009 and we did throughout 2010.  Unfortunately, we didn't do it because of various reasons, but it is something we should continue because if we want to have meaningful discussion, we need to have people that are informed and educated about all the various aspects and then we can have even more constructive discussions especially stands for you and the others.  Finally, participation works with animation.  The fact that it's going to happen in Nordic countries should not prevent us from trying to bring as many people from the regions.  Funding is a problem as eliminate but there's another thing and they mentioned that from the library association.  It is important to know that we can do some things without funding and that's spreading the bus.  That's what we did in a couple of previous years.  To conclude, I want to say that EuroDIG is not just a couple of people here.  It's all of us.  There is no invitation.  Everyone is invited.  Every one of us can do and should do.  Thanks.

>> Thanks, Vladda.  I just can underline what you said before.  It would be an understanding thinking that it's only the core team and the secretariate which adds the host country and takes the next event in Stockholm.  It is everybody who is invited.  I see many family faces here in the room who stepped in the last minute before Belgrade.  Many [INAUDIBLE] and I simply want to conclude our today session.  Our next two priorities are call for proposals and get funding, funding, funding, funding to make it better to meet expectations.S for Stockholm and now the last word for today easy session has [INAUDIBLE].  Thank you.

>> I hope you will come to Stockholm 14th and 15th of June.  The venue where the conference is in is in the city center and Stockholm is small.  So you can stay in hotels in walk distance.  You don't need to use buses or metro.  You can walk.  Networking with your colleagues and or you could swim.  There are a lot of water around.  17 degrees if it's warm.  But ‑‑ and the [INAUDIBLE] is daylight.  You cannot work all night.  So we'll all go to Stockholm.

>> Thanks and I would like to thank all of you for your active and constructive participation and we are looking to meet all of you in Stockholm.  Thanks a lot.